The mushroom poisoning in Vic.... I am gripped - Part 2

[ImustLearn2Cook]

Hi everyone, Aussie Mumsnetter here. As some have requested a new thread be started by an Aussie I decided to do it.

I am still gripped by this case and like many, I am awaiting updates of new information.

Will a matching donor for a liver for Ian be found soon? I hope he makes a full recovery.

Will he be able to shed new light on the lunch they all shared?

And of course is she guilty of deliberately poisoning them or was it an innocent mistake?

It happens from time to time. I sat on the jury of a drugs case where we were instructed to find one defendant not guilty of a count where he was probably guilty.

In our case it was a police cock up. It was an HMO and they had a warrant to search person A's room - but they went next door and searched person B's room as well. There was also something odd about the case - the police gave dramatic evidence that they had watched through the windows and seen person B cutting up cannabis resin with a knife - but mysteriously the knife was the only exhibit that was NOT sent for fingerprint testing.

It was a case along the lines of, a massive stash of drugs was found in the defendant’s home with the defendant’s fingerprints all over it. However when the police raided the home, they didn’t have a valid warrant, so the evidence (that the whole prosecution rested on) was inadmissible. (Not the exact circumstances, but along those lines.)

So the magistrate told the jury that they had to disregard that crucial evidence, without which there was no case.

Ah ok, that makes sense. I hadn't considered cases where evidence is deemed inadmissible due to a police cock-up but it probably happens more often than we know about!

Given their cock up, it should never have got to court in the first place. I think the police error only came to light once it was before the court.

True. I know of a case where a person died awaiting trial, his lawyer informed the prosecutors 2 months before the court date and they said the charges would be withdrawn.

The case still went to court and a warrant was issued for the dead man for not appearing. It took 2 hours to sort whilst his family went to pieces. Still makes me angry (the man was my friend's son).

That is shocking! How awful for his poor family.

It really was. I still don't know if it was the fault of the cops/prosecutors for not withdrawing the charges, or the Defence lawyer for perhaps not informing them in writing, or filling in the correct forms?

I spoke to the Defence lawyer myself, as my friend was too upset & busy dealing with other issues including media. It was one of those 'flash in the pan' news items at the time. I was assured the charges would be dropped. But no.

The Defence lawyer never submitted an invoice for their hours, so there's that.

Today's court update so far

Erin Patterson murder trial live: Telecommunications expert gives evidence - ABC News

Must admit my eyes are glazing over at all the detail on cell phone towers.

Must admit my eyes are glazing over at all the detail on cell phone towers.

My brain hit a wall with the mushroom experts... It's all a bit overwhelming. No wonder the jurors get so many breaks.

In yet more totally innocent behaviour, from the accidental death cap cook, her phone data shows strong links to the sites of two notified death cap findings...

One phone, used from February 2023 until a few days after the lunch, has vanished.

The other, used prior to and up to Feburary 2023, was reset three times, once while in possession of the cops.

I rather hope they have telemetry from her car, which I have read is an MG.

April 18 the first posting about Death Caps in Loch on iNaturalist.

"Fungi enthusiast Christine McKenzie detailed her posts on the iNaturalist website, where she told the court she had posted about a sighting of death cap mushrooms near Loch on April 18, 2023. Ms McKenzie says she picked all the mushrooms she could see to dispose of them [for the safety of pickers and also dogs] but was concerned they might grow back and be picked by foragers."

April 28 Having waited a week for regrowth, one assumes, Erin is in Loch according to the pings, and she also buys a dehydrator the same day.

May 21 The second Death Cap sighting logged on iNaturalist by Dr Tom May in Outtrim.

May 22 Erin is at Outtrim for 24 minutes, coincidentally! And also pops back to Loch on the same day, apparently.

The phone she was using at the time has vanished! Also, coincidentally.

Just reading live updates whilst doing other things & getting confused. Dr Sorrell is the tech/phone expert but Sorrel with one "L" is a type of mushroom.

I might need another coffee....

@velvetandsatin there's so many amazing coincidences in this case aren't there! 🙄

If she gets found not guilty i will be absolutely dumbfounded.

Way too many coincidences for my liking. But hopefully the offer of manslaughter will be available even if she's found not guilty of murder.

Does anyone think the defense will put her on the stand to be questioned? If I were the gambling type, my bet would be NO WAY.

I must say, the ABC journos have a sense of humour!

If you're following any of this, you'll remember that Dr Sorell was only provided with EBM records of Erin's phone for certain dates related to the investigation, rather than all the EBM records for the past few years.
Mr Mandy noted that he although he could have requested all the records, he did not.

It's been a very dry morning, and Justice Beale signals for a break.

There was a previous comment about the mushroom expert "busting out another chart". 😛

Has she been charged with manslaughter as well as murder? If not can the courts in Australia offer it as an alternative?

don’t think they can in the uk anymore. Someone I know has been charged with both and his barrister said it’s because if they can’t secure a murder conviction they can still get a manslaughter one potentially. But that if he hadn’t been charged with it he can’t be convicted 🤷‍♀️.

I’m pretty sure that someone charged with murder only can still be found guilty of manslaughter. Given this is being heard in a state-level court, I will say it may vary by state.

No one with diarrhoea would wear white trousers!

As for murder v manslaughter, it's the Crown's decision as to what charges to bring. They've charged her with murder. If the criminal intent was not to kill or seriously injure, the Judge can leave the alternative of manslaughter.

Very astute observation!

Some bits of this are like a farce — you can just imagine the movie where the mushroom killer takes excess laxatives to fake diarrhoea and ends up soiling themselves in a pair of white trews.

If it's the same as the UK then they can't stop her if she wants to go on the stand. I said it before, my money is on yes! But her defence probably wouldn't want her to and might try to convince her otherwise? I think she's another Lucy Letby type character and she took the stand. Certain personality types just wont be able to resist. I haven't been following too closely lately, when is the trial expected to end?

No one with diarrhoea would wear white trousers!

So funny! As well as going for a long drive to act as a "cork" for explosive diarrhea, one should always wear white trousers as a deterrant to any accidents.

Didn't need a toilet stop once on the several hours of driving. Paused in a servo loo for 9 seconds (probably to chuck Phone A in a sanitary bin) and bought masses of snacks.

How people can say "but she was sick, too!" with all these facts rolling out that dispute her story amazes me.

Also the Paramedics transporting her to Monash Hospital in Clayton on the 90 minute drive said she didn't need, ahem, the toilet.

Just an anecdote- I was transported via ambulance when I was 34 weeks pregnant after a bleed, from Gippsland area to Frankston Hospital, similar drive. The Paramedics had bowls, pads etc ready to go.

They know what they're doing & they said she seemed fine.

I agree it would indeed be an incredible set of coincidences. Quite a case to behold.

How does going for a drive act as a cork? It has the opposite effect on me, the further I am from a toilet, the more likely I am to need to go!

Is it an Antipodean thing, what with your toilet water going round the other way and all?