Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate VI

[Coffeeandchocolate]

Time for a new thread, ladies. May it continue to give us comfort, and help us find a special, sunny place in our hearts, where our babies are safely tucked in. May it bring good luck to everyone who posts or justs reads.

And to the old-timers, it?s so lovely to still have you here with us, reaching out.

hi mystified, I'm sorry to hear about your sister in law. I had a medical termination two weeks ago at 13 weeks for a baby with downs syndrome.

like cant it was my second termination so I was quite prepared. In a medical termination you give birth and in a surgical you have a d&c under general. If you are interested a few things I appreciated were people asking me how I am (text everyday, she can ignore it or open up whatever she wants to do). My cousin sent me flowers which cheered me up. Personally I wanted to talk about the birth experience, a lot of people didn't ask, but for me it was a birth and a death and I coped with both that day.

Ways I coped(ish) was to buy a ring and have my daughter's birthday engraved in it (for my first termination which was at 26 weeks, i will probably add my sons birthday to that ring). I also saw both the babies and took photos. If your sil wants to do this she should take a camera, my hospital had had theirs stolen. I found it all very unreal (and still do even though it was only two weeks ago with ds). I can't believe it happened so for me the photos help me cry. I have a memory box so that its not in my face.

I agree with cant in that lots of relatives have treated it like a wart removal, also that the grief for me largely came before the termination. Although I present well and even make jokes, I'll then be crawling round my kitchen in tears all of a sudden or crying in the shower. It does suddenly hit you even when you think you are over it.

It is a really sensitive subject and ime everyone deals with grief differently but this is how I dealt with it and during my recent termination I told the nurse about the photos and she said that's what counsellors advise. Hope that is of some use to you. xx

Hi Mystified, if it is a medical termination usually you get tablets and then 48 hours later go into hospital and they insert pessaries which kickstart 'labour'. At 13 weeks, it was more like heavy period pains than labour pains. You are offered whatever pain relief you like, from paracetamol to morphine and even I guess epidurals, but usually that would be if you're much later on. I had just paracetamol at 13 weeks but had morphine with the 20 week termination.

Another word of warning - it really can take ages. Mine were relatively quick - first time, I took pessaries at 9.30 and baby was born mid afternoon; the second time it took until early evening, but I gather it can take longer, and certainly both times it was ages from the first pessary to the beginning of pains. Hence needing things to do/eat while you wait. But your SIL is going home for part of it after the pessaries (is that right?), which is different from what I went through. I thought they had to keep you there after the pessaries.

The baby will be very small but recognizably a baby; she will be able to decide whether to see the baby or not. I did and am very glad I did. With my second baby we also have photos and hand and footprints, but the first one was very very small.

My babies couldn't have survived and I felt I had no choice, although clearly I did, but to terminate. It's so hard. You are going against your every instinct and it feels so incredibly wrong.

But somehow, amazingly, you do get through it, and actually for me the worst part of it all wasn't giving birth to my sleeping babies, but the diagnosis that changed the world for me.

I am thinking of your brother, too - it's very hard for men. ARC (Antenatal results and choices) are really good and send out newsletters for bereaved parents; my DH has been in touch with other men in same position via their forum too.

My heart goes out to them.

Hi Natz, sorry to hear we have so much in common. My first termination was for a girl who had a hypoplastic right heart in 2007. I experienced a fair amount of incompetence during that - turned up for the injection to start the termination and the hospital hadn't received my referral letter. Had to be rescanned and sent home to come back two days later.

all the hospitals would blame the others, frankly I couldn't have cared less who was to blame just that they sorted themselves out and treat me with some compassion.

I found genetic counselling useful and it gave me closure but it did take about 3 months to get answers so seems to be a long old process.

I hope your half term was a good distraction. I had a lovely time and hardly thought about the last couple of weeks. I'm back to work on monday though which I'm dreading. x

mystified. I would advise your sil to persuade them to let her stay in after the pessaries. i took 1.5 hours from pessaries to birth and it was very quick. They said it was fairly unusual but i wouldn't want to have the baby at home as you have a lot of questions and i found the nurses gave me lots of help and guidance during and after the birth. I was really worried about seeing him as it was so early and I was concerned that i would be repulsed. The nurse described him first and I could then make up my mind about seeing him.

If they are concerned about it happening at home then get them (or her sister) to kick off and they'll keep her in.

can't i agree diagnosis is way more shocking and life changing than birth. The birth was bitter sweet (if that makes sense) though I was so scared beforehand. I took a games console to pass the time if you want to know.

Mmm I think I agree with Manitz about staying in. I didn't realize it could happen quite as quickly as that (scary! - maybe unlikely if it is her first baby?) but when I think about it, they were monitoring me from the beginning anyway and wouldn't have let me escape.

Games console is a good idea. I read books, too, but they require concentration she/your brother may not have.

Manitz, it is still so recent and raw for you. And it has happened twice to you, and with incompetence. I am sorry.

Mantiz, thinking of you tomorrow. Trying to get back into real life is very difficult. Ive found it difficult. Im so sorry you have had to go through this whole experience again. It is bitterly unfair. I was never given the option of seeing Cara afterwards, which I am in two minds about if I would have wanted to. But the more time that passes, the more I wish I had been given that option.

I am meeting up with a group of friends today and am so worried about how I will cope. I was so emotional yesterday and still not feeling so great today. Ive spoken to a couple of them since the termination about the proceedure, but Ive shut myself away really since it happened. Ive been to a wedding since but this was during my numb period, now I feel very fragile and vunerable. I work one day a week in an office with just one other person (who happens to be my mum) so work was very easy to get back into. But Ive not really seen anyone outside my family. With Christmas fast approaching there are lots of get togethers being organised.

Mystified, I agree with the others, I would suggest yout SIL stays in. I know I had a surgical, but that was hard enough and I found I clung to our nurse who was caring for us, she was totally amazing and so compassionate. I have been able to leave the whole experience of losing our little girl at the hospital. I would have been very worried about having to go through that experience at home.

Love to you all, and hope you are all well xxx

I'll pass this all on to my sil's sister - yes i think it would be good to try to get them to stay in after the pessaries as they are so worried about it all happening at home. Though sadly as this is her first pregnancy it might not happen too quickly.

I'll tell my brother about ARC - i'm worried about how he'll cope too so this might be a good source of support for him.

Manitz - your ring sounds so special - i think that is a really beautiful way to remember.

thanks to you all again for the advice especially as it isn't actually happening to me - if you don't mind could i just ask about how you copied with other people being upset - i'm quite an emotional person generally and i find it hard to get through any conversation with my brother at the moment without crying then i get very cross with myself for putting that on him as well.

I feel my own sadness about it all washes over me like a tsunami, the wave comes, crashes in, causes havoc and then is gone leaving such a numbness - but i can't imagine how it is for all of you and for them - i'm just so sad for you all.

Thanks for your thoughtful messages. x

Hi everyone.

I wondered if I might join you. Have been lurking here for a while reading about your experiences. I've posted seperately in this section from the start of my antenatal tests journey and had some very helpful advice but now find myself here on this thread.

I lost my little girl Leila on Thursday last week - she was 20+ 3 weeks. We ended the pregnancy as we had been told she had a rare unbalanced chromosomal translocation and may not have survived to term or if she did would likely have had severe mental retardation and a whole host of other problems. I didnt want to end the pregnancy and I didnt want to continue it with her only to suffer terribly. So we were stuck with that horrible condundrum, a lose lose situation. The genetics specialist told us point blank there was no way our little girl could be ok. They had never seen this particular translocation before and said it has never been documented in the literature. But she'd discussed it with other colleagues and drew on similar examples in the literature and outcomes were always terrible. One little girl had no social smile, no mother recognition, heart, kidney problems and a host of other problems I forget. All bad. Other babies didnt live longer than days. We couldnt bear to see our child like that. So because of this information and the assurance over and over again that the results were correct and the outcome would be bad we decided to end the pregnancy. They prepared us for the physical side of things - the birth (medical), the choices of mementos, the choice re funeral. But no one really talked much about the emotional pain. And that's where I am now. I just feel a part of me is missing, I feel a huge void in my life and I want her to be here with me. I dont want her to be alone in the hospital. I want it to have been different. I keep thinking 'what if' all the time. What if they were wrong. What if she hadnt been as bad as they said. What if we did the wrong thing. What if it happens again. What if it doesnt happen again and I cant love a future child as much.

I cant imagine how I can get over this though I know so many of you on here have been through the same and survived. I want to be pregnant again but I only really want Leila. And we have to wait for our genetic testing in case one of us (most likely me) is a carrier meaning this could happen again and again. And worst of all I feel like the lovely daughter I have (who is 2 1/2) and my partner are no longer enough for me. Before this happened we had such a happy life and I actually worried about whether I would love another child as much as DD1 as I just adored her. Now, I feel she is not enough anymore and I'm yearning for my little baby girl. Is this normal? Surely I should be finding comfort in the lovely family I do have. We are so lucky to have a healthy little girl already. But I feel like the magic in my life has disappeared and what I have is not enough anymore. I keep reliving the birth which was amazing but devastating. The weird combination of euphoria, fear and utter heartbreak. I keep wondering if my poor baby was still alive when she was born. I just keep torturing myself with the experience.

I lost my dear dad 5 years ago and the grief was unbearable. But now I can think of him and smile and remember the wonderful relationship we had. But I wont ever be able to do that when I think of my baby as we had no shared times. No real memories. Just the love I had for her moving and growing inside me. The complete love I felt when I held her after she was born and gazed at her in her tiny basket throughout that night. Will I ever remember my little baby Leila with anything other than sadness?

We should hear early next week when the funeral will be. we are having her cremated and will get to keep her ashes. We can also see her once more in the funeral place before her casket is closed so we can put in a photo of us and a tiny teddy. I'm hoping the funeral will help me accept things a bit better.

Anyway I'm so very sorry for the rambling. I know I'm not the only person to go through this - I cant bear that anyone has to go through this terrible experience. Yet I dont think its possible for anyone to truly understand this unique grief unless they've expereinced it. I guess that's why I've rambled so much here because I dont think anyone in my RL will really understand.

Cherry x

Oh Cherry, I am so so sorry for your loss and the pain you are suffering right now. Everything you are feeling is 'normal' if there is such a word. What you have been through is going to throw waves of conflicting emotions at you. As many of the ladies I have spoken to on here said to me, be kind to yourself.

I am still at the 'what if' stage too. I cant tell you when things begin to feel better as I am still waiting. I have 2 DD - my eldest is actually called Leila, and I find myself getting cross with them much easier than I should and for non-important reasons, they are aged 4 and 2. Then I feel extremely guilty because they are my babies, my healthy adorable little gilrs, and I should be cherishing them, not getting cross with them.
Although I am not back to who I was before we lost our little girl 7 weeks ago, I am begining to feel more in control. We are yet to see our Genetic Counsellor for our answers. The wait is awful.
We too had our daughter cremated through the hospital. It was a very hard day. But it also helped me begin to grieve. For the 4 weeks before the cremation it felt like I had been holding my breath, and on the day I got to blow it all out and begin to mourn my daughter.

I understand the need to be pregnant again. I have found myself pining for my pregnancy. We have decided that we should try again. Not to replace Cara because we could never replace her, she will always be our third child, and when our daughters are old enough, we will tell them about her. As you say, nobody can truely understand just how devestating a loss like this is. A termination without medical reasons can be awful, but when you have to terminated for reasons outside your control, the sense of loss and pain is unbearable. I had a bleed after our CVS and had to have a scan to see if I had miscarried, part of me wanted to have miscarried so that I wouldn't have to make the decision to terminate, but when we saw Cara wriggling around on the screen the sense of relief was overwhelming. Your instinct as a mother, especially an expectant mother, is to protect your babies. To then have to decide to end the pregnancy is against all your instincts, and it is so hard to come to terms with.

Cherry, everything you are going through, no parent should ever have to go through. Reliving the birth and the constant doubts and questions you have are all 'normal' at this time, and as I understand for quite some time to come. Please seek help from a consellor as this may help you begin to come to terms with everything that you have experienced.

There are a lot of women on here who have had to go through this awful experience, some very recently like you and I, and some who are much further along and even at a point in their lives where they can think about their babies with love and much less pain.

I think of Cara as our Angel who we were never meant to have with us, but who will always be a part of us. I talk to her, I talk about her to those I trust to hold me up when I begin to cry. I have no memories to look back on and smile, I have no physical items that belonged to her that I can cuddle and remember her by. I do have her scan photo, and I have her blessing certificate from the cremation. I am dreading her due date. I cry at nothing and for a few hours sometimes, I feel like the strongest woman in the world. The healing process is a long and turbulent one. Talk to your husband, cry with your husband. Kiss your daughter and sit with her when she is sleeping. I have found much comfort in this with my daughters. Just looking at them asleep and talking to Cara.

Please talk to us on here, we may not be able to heal your pain, but we can certainly go throught it with you. xxx

Mysified, I found myself in your position last year when my sister lost her little girl at 24 weeks. I had no idea how I should act around her.

I was scared that I would either upset her more in her own grief, or my biggest worry was that she would think I was selfish in crying as it was her loss and not mine.

I did a lot of crying at home in private. However, when I lost my daughter in September, I can honestly say that I have no idea if people were upset around me. I paid no attention to anyone else. Up to the termination I was a complete mess. My mum cried, but I cant remember if I was with her or if it was on the phone.

Explain to your brother (as I am sure he knows you well enough already) that you are struggling to control your grief. He probably appreciates the fact that you care so much. Me and my sister have a had a few crys together. For men it is much harder to show their emotion. My DH will only let me see his pain. He tells me they are built to be supports. But I can understand that you probably want to be the support for your brother.

Remind your brother that you are there for him as and when he needs you.

And please dont think you aren't allowed to grieve. The biggest loss is for your brother and SIL, but the whole family is losing a much wanted and loved member of the family. xxxxx

Hi Cherry, my heart goes out to you. I lost my baby girl in Feb this year, we decided to terminate because she had severe brain anomalies. I was 22 weeks.

You have found a good place to come and talk about Leila. It?s such early days for you, and reading your post took me back to those days in February when I thought my world would end and I was just living in a kind of bewilderment that all this could happen, that I could feel my baby move inside me yet know she was so poorly. There is no other way to go through this but day by day, one step at a time. The advice everyone gives in here, because it is so true, is to be gentle with yourself and not expect too much of yourself for a while.

You will get through this, you will never be the same but you will get through it. This experience has changed me, and I know it has changed all of us in here. I don?t mean that you will never be the same in a miserable way? not sure how to explain this, but people say you will find a new normal and it?s true.
Silvia was my first baby (although I am now lucky to be pregnant again, 23 weeks) but I know that this experience can be different if you already have other children you need to take care of. But as much as you love your DD1 and your DH, you need to grieve for your little Leila now, this doesn?t mean you love them any less.

I really don?t think Leila was alive when she was born, so please don?t torture yourself with this thought. Silvia was stillborn at 21+6, just one day short of the cut-off point for the injection in the heart, so less than 21 weeks is really early.

I will say it again, please be gentle with yourself and if you feel it helps come in here and talk to us and write as much as you need. I was in here every day, sometimes several times a day, I found it such a comfort, this thread had become more real than my RL.

Natz, I hope your meeting today was ok. Do your friends know about what happened? I found it much easier to cope with seeing people if they just acknowledged my loss rather than pretend nothing happened. I have to say that I also isolated myself for ages and it took me a while to come out of my shell. What I would say is try not to put too much pressure on you this Christmas, real friends will understand. You are still raw and need to take care of yourself.

Manitz, I hope your return to work will go smoothly. I didn?t find it as hard I was expecting, but this is because I work from home a lot so didn?t feel constant pressure to keep it together. The ring idea is lovely. I have a bangle with Silvia?s name and date of birth on it ? not my idea, but that of another poster, Babylily, who hasn?t been around for a while.

Mystified, my friend cried as well, and I didn?t feel this as a burden. On the contrary, although of course I didn?t want her to cry, it felt like an acknowledgement that my loss was valid. I felt less alone and I was moved by her tears. This is compassion and it?s bringing you, your brother and SIL together. On a more practical note, I too think she should really insist on staying in hospital after the pessaries.

Thinking of you all xxxx

Mystified, I think the very fact that you are thinking about how best to support your SIL means it's very unlikely you will do the wrong thing. My own sister has never acknowledged what happened to me (writing that down it seems unbelievable but it's true) and it has changed how I think of her as a person.

I suggest just following her lead - if she wants to talk, listen to her. The baby will be very real to her; I needed people to acknowledge him and my grief for him. Some of my friends did tell me that they cried for me and I actually found that very comforting.

Cherry, I'm so sorry to hear about your Leila. I hope the funeral will bring you some peace. I found ours very healing.

I know what you mean about the void. For a long time I felt like there was a black hole where my heart was supposed to be and I didn't know how to fix it. Now I feel more like the black hole has turned into a shadow -still there, but less of a burden.

Manitz and Natz - thinking of you too.

Cant, thanks, I am fine and have reprioritised so will be leaving work to be at home with the kids. 1.5 hours was brilliant I was dreading longer. with my first it took 10 hours and I did really well without drugs until hour 7 but then broke down and had morphine which is a lovely drug and helped me through the emotional pain.

Natz, i hope it went well with your friends today. I have found talking to people extremely helpful and have found a lot of support from other mothers - lots of whom had been through similar experiences. I had val in jul 07 and found a lot of my old friends wanted to meet that autumn/xmas as a form of support - i chose to go to matinees which was great as musicals are quite emotional so I could have a little cry but we didn't have to go through everything blow by blow although we'd often have a drink or meal afterwards and could talk about it if we needed.

Hi Cherry, I've read some of your previous posts. I'm so sorry for where you are now. I found it helped to focus on the little things like a walk in the park with the kids and their strange conversations and view on life.

I didn't see anyone i didn't want to and didn't push myself at all for about 6 months. I gradually got back to my normal levels of activity but I was quite self indulgent for a long time. We even booked a spontaneous holiday and spent some family time rebonding. I have found that I have less time to suffer fools than i used to.

Do you know what they mean by a carrier? my dh has a balanced translocation on 18 but neither of my two terminations has been related to that though I know there are more issues with how chromosones can be transferred for us because of his translocation. It took a long time to get our gc and it's a worrying wait, it might help if you could find out about what a carrier is as it could at least remove that aspect of your worry.

Mystified, I don't like upsetting people but I knew why they cried and I felt it was supportive. My other choice had been comfort care as I thought if she died out of the womb then my parents and husband would also be sad and I wouldn't be grieving on my own. That's a clumsy way of saying that I wanted my family to recognise it as a baby and as a person. Ime terminating a pregnancy is a lonely grief.
x

coffee, thanks for your kind words. I feel better about going back to work today, we shall see but I'm sure i'll be fine. i agree with your description about how this experience changes you. It is devastating but ultimately it becomes part of you. I'm glad your pregnancy is going well.

ghislaine, So sorry to hear about how your sister is reacting. I think it's very cowardly to not even make the effort. Some people can't cope and i have found i'm not keen on those people.

x

Thank you Coffee, it went so well. I had a really relaxed and enjoyable time with them. It was only 4 of us in the end which was so nice because we were able to talk as a group without breaking off into little personal conversations.
We went for 3 hours before talking about Cara. But it wasn't difficult. One friend very sweetly had brought me a present some weeks back but had been worried about giving it to me. She gave it to me tonight, it was a Name a Star Gift. She told me she felt helpless in our experience and didn't know how to express her sorrow at our loss, so thought we may like to name a star after Cara. I did so well, I held back the tears - just! It was really sweet of her. She got married a week after we had the termination and had felt guilty at being so happy when we had been so sad. I thought it was a very lovely thing for her to do.
She said she wanted to give it to me at the wedding, but I assured her that that would not have been a good idea. Although this was a very thoughtful gift, I would not have coped well with recieving this any earlier than I did.
Just wanted to reach out to sunshine28, if you are still reading this thread, I hope you are ok. Thinking of you and hope you have recieved the date for Milo xxxx

Natz - how sad that you have been on both sides, like you I have done alot of crying in private, my DH doesn't quite know what to do with me - I don't think he gets it really. But now my mum is here with me tonight and we are supporting each other through this although we both agree we feel so useless. She has been over to see my brother and sil tonight and says my sil feels so scared about what tomorrow will bring - she's been told that she will take some tablets but that she could be sick after.

Ghislaine - so sorry your sister wasn't able to acknowledge your loss but thank you for giving me advice about how to support my brother and sil.

Coffee - I've spoken to my sil's sister about staying in after the pessaries and she says she will demand that happens for them - as now I've found out more about it I can't comtemplate my sil having to give birth at home.

Natz - you're so right, I almost do feel like I need permission to grieve - that's why I almost didn't post on this thread, but I'm so glad I did because although this is not happening to me, you have all been so supportive and kind.

Manitz - that's it I think - I want them to know how sad we are too and that we are there for them but I don't want it to make their grief worse as they should only be worrying about themselves and not us as well.

Ghislaine - my DH's mum, stepfather, younger brother and older sister have all completely ignored our loss. They do not talk about it and have not even offered words of support. I am so angry at them and want nothing to do with them, but for my DD's sake I am hiding my hurt and anger so they can continue thier relationship with them. I will never see them in the same light again, and I will never make any effort for them again in the future. I understand that they may find our situation difficult and hard to deal with, but ignoring it is so selfish and wrong. I feel so let down for my DH, he never asks them for anything, and he is always the one that his parents and siblings turn to if they need anything. All we needed was their support and shoulders to cry on. I dont care if they found it hard to deal with, how do they think we feel? I ask myself if they even care. Then I ask myself if I really want to know the answer to that.
I dont know how I would cope if it had been my sister who had ignored it. I really feel for you xxx

Mystified - will be thinking of your brother, sil, you and all your family tomorrow. One word of advice, take anything that is said to you by your brother or sil with a pinch of salt over the next few weeks. People deal with these situations so very differently. If for any reason they snap at you, dont take it personally. My poor DH has had to deal with a couple of angry moments from me. But sometimes you just need to let it out, because at that moment in time it is how you feel. I had and am still having such varying emotions that there have been some days I have been left totally exhausted, just from being so up and down, that all I can do is lay down and cry

hi ladies
Can I join you, have been lurking for a while, reading all your experiences has been helping me.
I lost my baby to anencaphaly, surgical termination at 13 weeks in august, it was my first pregnancy.On saturday we got our test results back from the hospital, which was goood news no other abnormalities, we also found out our baby was a girl. At first I had been really upset not knowing the sex of our baby but in the end had come to think it was best not to know. I have been thinking more and more about the what ifs, imagining her and what she would have been like. We have now decided to call her Isabelle.

I thought things were starting to get better now i feel the grief all over again. I miss being pregnant and think about all the hopes and dreams we had for our baby. Im struggling with being around people,all my friends have children, thoughts of christmas fill me with dread, I just want to hibernate and wake up in a better place.

hello flower, it is so hard isn't it? I know that feeling of wanting it all to go away. I would wake up in the morning and be disappointed to wake up, because it meant facing another day.

The grief will come and go. I can only say, let it. I read somewhere (here perhaps?) that the grieving is more intense, because you mourn twice - once for the baby you lost, and once for the loss of your dreams. So true.

Thank you all for your advice and support. It really does provide some comfort and helps me to feel not so alone in this.

All of the conflicting emotions are so hard. I feel grief at losing Leila. I feel regret at the decision we made, despite knowing that if I had to make it all over again we would have to do the same thing. I feel doubt regarding the information we were told even though we were told time and time again our baby could not be ok. I feel sheer fury at the world at forcing us into such a terrible decision and making us live with not only the loss of our much wanted baby but the responsibility of having to end her life. My OH says the facts are the facts and the emotion is something different and that once we start to come to terms with the emotional fallout and begin to find peace, the facts will still be there and we will know we did the right thing. I hope he is right.

Natz - I'm sorry this is all so recent for you too. I was glad to read about your friend?s gesture in naming a star for Cara. It is a comfort to have such thoughtful friends who care. Once of my closest friends has sent me a box full of lovely natural bath products to pamper myself which I thought was very kind and thoughtful. Thank you for your tip of looking at your daughters whilst they sleep. I have done that for the past two nights and it filled me with the love I have for my DD. It helps a lot to feel that.

Coffee ? thank you for you comforting words. I?m sorry you lost Silvia at such a late stage too. It is the cruellest thing that nature doesn?t take such a poorly child from us but instead we are forced us into making such a decision once we have felt our baby inside of us and have bonded. I?m so glad to hear you are pregnant again and have moved forward in the recovery process well. I hope this pregnancy is going well and you have a very very straightforward 3rd trimester.

Manitz ? I?m so very sorry to hear that you have been through this more than once. It is certainly a fear we have now knowing that there could be a hereditary reason this happened. Our genetics consultant didn?t go into it much as she said we had enough to deal with at the time. We have had bloods taken and apparently they will have results in around 4 weeks. I pushed her to try and find out if she thought this would be hereditary or whether it was more likely to be a one off and she said she could not tell at all either way ? it could be either. She did very briefly talk about the possible combinations should I be carrying a balanced translocation (she thought if it was hereditary it would most likely be me as it was the x chromosome that was affected) but reminded us that we do already have a healthy child so we can again.

Ghislaine ? thanks for your words. I?m glad to read that the void you felt is now less of a burden. Your comment to Flower about feeling worst in the morning is so true. Each day is a reminder on waking of what has happened and the grief is overwhelming.

Mystified - I think from reading your posts that you will be a huge source of comfort to your family. I feel a little like our experience is a bit abstract for our family and whilst they understand our decision they dont understand the emotional pain of losing Leila as much. I think having acknowledgment of the sense of loss from others is very important. I hope yesterday went as well as it could.

Flower ? I?m so sorry that you have found yourself here too with the loss of your little girl Isabelle. I too am dreading Christmas this year and wish I could jump on a plane somewhere far away to escape all the festivities. Hopefully 2011 will be a better year for us all.

I sometimes think of what has happened as like being out in the surf: you are being pushed along by the waves, really with no control over where you are going. Sometimes I'm on top of the wave and can see the shore and other times I'm being crushed under the force of the wave and can barely breathe.

It does seem very cyclical to me. I felt better after the termination, as if once it had happened, I could let out the breath I'd been holding, and then better again after the funeral. But as Christmas and my due date approaches I feel like I'm under the wave again because I keep thinking what could have been/what I was expecting (a cuddly newborn in front of the fire )and I know it won't be happening. But there will come a time when I reach the shore; it's the not knowing when that is so tough.

hi cherrybug, with dh's balanced translocation they said it was likey to cause an early miscarriage if anything. We have 3 healthy children and have also had teh two terminations but neither of the reasons for those terminations are related to the translocation which he carries. For that reason (i'm not a geneticist but ours didn't seem bothered by it) I wouldn't focus too much on that potential problem, it sounds scary at first but you get used to it after a while and I barely think about it. i hope that is of some help to you.

Ghislaine. I like that description and today i'd say I've been on the sea bed yet yesterday i felt like nothing at all had happened to me ever. Was wondering if I was bottling it up. Today i've been crying. At work. in front of people. The horror. managed to stop by about 10.30 though but lucky i didn't have any meetings or i think i'd have been off. just wanted to be home in bed and not see or speak to anybody at all.

manitz - can you make up some excuse and just go home?

tbh, i'm fine again now. i need to be at work, was set off cos ds had massive tantrum while i was dressing him this morning then clung to me crying mummy. Bit of separation anxiety I think, pulled him off and got out the house quick. Think it's not helped him that i've been home the best part of a month and we now need to get back into the routine.

But of course I'd prefer to be playing with him than here so the guilt and the fact that i don't want to be here set me off.

Saw my brother and sil last night - they are being so brave...I stayed for a few hours and there were lots of tears but also some lighter moments as my sil said she needs to resurface from the grief and feel like she can still laugh.

They go in tomorrow and thanks for everyone who encouraged us to push for them to stay in after the pessaries, they are remaining at hospital in a side room.

My brother and i managed a few minutes on our own - he is so scared to see her in pain but the thing that broke my heart was when he asked if the baby would cry when it was born - he is so worried about that - i honestly didn't know what to say - i reassured him as best as i could but i'm now so worried myself as i just don't know- i'm so sorry if this upsets anyone.(sad)