Facing second termination for medical reasons this year...

[EggletinaClock]

I know there's the thread for post termination support as I used to be a regular poster, but I wanted to make an appeal to a wider audience.
I had a termination at 22 weeks in April 2011 for Edwards' syndrome (only detected at my 20 week scan as a result of a heart defect - NT and bloods came back as low risk). After several months ttc I got pregnant again and opted to go straight for CVS at 11 weeks. Unfortunately, the sample was contaminated with my cells and then there were Xmas Bank Holidays, so all in it took 19 days for me to get a result. That eventual result was that the baby has Down Syndrome.
From the day of the CVS onwards I have been bleeding and had mild to severe cramping, I've been in hospital five times and two consultants have said they think the pregnancy is slowly failing anyway as it is inherently faulty. I have opted to terminate to end this utter nightmare. As I desperately wanted to avoid going through another delivery, but as I was over 12 weeks, I was referred on to a private clinic. I was supposed to have the termination surgically yesterday but it was cancelled at the last minute due to a
potential airway problem. So now I have been left with no choice but to go through with a delivery. I took the initial pills this morning and will be admitted to be induced on Monday by which time I will be 14(2). I am not too worried about the delivery as it can surely not be as bad as the one at 22 weeks. They have also warned me that as the pregnancy is failing anyway I may well not get to the inducement in Monday so I am expecting miscarriage at any point.
At no point during this pregnancy have I been happy, merely anxious and fearful and all my fears have come true, again.
We are to be referred for genetic testing and have been advised not to ttc before then. My husband is refusing to even contemplate trying again. I still so desperately want a second child (I have one healthy daughter) but I fear what might happen should I conceive again. Time is not on my side as I am 38 and getting ever closer to 39.
I would really appreciate if any of you with similar experiences of repeated tfmr could share them with me. Particularly what you considered around trying again or giving up. I know there are women here who have had two terminations for medical reasons (Manitz and Cantdothisagain are two I remember.) How do you cope? At the moment I feel very calm, I was braced for bad news, and I have little of the fear I had about the induced delivery last time. Is it going to hit me later or am I toughened to this now?
Any help or advice gratefully received.

Eggletina, I am so, so, so sorry. I know nothing anyone can say helps. And - as someone who has had two medical terminations as you know- I know only too well the sense of disbelief when your fears come true in the second pregnancy. I couldn't believe it, on the one hand, and it seemed totally inevitable and expected, on the other. Once can seem random. Twice is something else.

My circumstances were different from yours - first termination at 13 weeks, second at 20 weeks - and I felt very differently (second baby felt much more like a lost baby, first like a lost pregnancy, iyswim - probably due to gestational stage). But in a way I did know what to expect more and that made it easier. I am sure the actual process will be quicker at 14 weeks than at 22. Mine certainly was. Though obviously there can be complications. I missed the delivery of the foetus in my 13 week termination because I passed out.

Anyway you know about the technicalities of it all; I'd guess you're more wondering how the second time affected the whole need to conceive again. The second termination made me determined to start ttc again straight away (I waited three months after the first, one month after the second). DH felt the same as me, or at least if he didn't he went with me. I felt that I had been through too much to give up; it just made it all the more urgent. In my case the consultants were convinced it was random bad luck - my babies had Turners syndrome (the first -though I terminated because she wouldnt survive, not because she had Turners iyswim - sounds similar to your current situation) and bilateral renal agenesis (which is incompatible with life) - and the consultants insisted there could be no connection between them. I don't believe that, btw. I am sure there must be and they just haven't discovered it yet. I know too many people who have been through this twice, apparently coincidentally, for me to believe in the coincidence. Me, Manitz, Bee, Linspins, Shangrila, Havingkittens, Bezzy (terminated for T21; mc with T13), Babylily, Grandj, more, I am sure, but can't remember names off-hand. All of us genetically tested and told it was random. I am sure you will be told the same once testing is done. Random bad luck. That is what they say. Not at all sure I believe it.

Having said the above, I know of NO ONE who has gone through it three times. So I am sure you won't, either. Not that that helps you atm.

I basically pretended I wasn't pregnant during my last pregnancy. I had frequent scans, had high risk written everywhere over my notes, but I was in denial. My method of coping. I had them turn the screens off for every scan until it turned out okay. And I cleared my diary for days after every scan to ensure time for a termination.

I am so so sorry you find yourself in this position. I do know how it feels. I was pretty numb, second time around, lots of the time. I had tried to tell myself it would all be okay, the first time had been bad luck,and then it all went wrong and I couldnt tell myself that anymore. I just had to find a way of coping and mine was to get pregnant again. If you feel the same, I am pretty sure your DH will change his mind. Bezzyk's DH was the same and he came around.

I'm here, anyway. I don't come on much now but I will check back to see how you are. You WILL get there, honestly. Be kind to yourself. Blankets, comfort, lots of cuddles with your DD. Whatever helps, even slightly. I am thinking of you.

I can't add much I just wanted to offer you support. I lost my daughter in Jan due to abnormalities incompatible with life at 28 weeks. I then had a miscarriage at 12 weeks in September, I am told this was most likely due to genetic abnormality again.

In terms of delivery I had an emcs in Jan and delivered naturally in Sept, the sept delivery was no where near as traumatic. I also felt that as a lost pregnancy rather than the very definite baby I regard dd.

It is very hard not to feel angry and hopeless, I felt once was bad luck but twice is a kick in the teeth. In terms of conceiving again my DH was never again after losing dd in Jan, obviously he eventually changed his mind. After the next loss I think he is more worried about me going through it again both mentally and physically. I at the moment long for a baby but can not ever see getting another healthy baby. We have three living children so I have to be so so grateful that we have them.

I am thinking of you and sending you so much love and support.

Eggletina, I am so, so sorry. I am holding thoughts of you and your DH very close and wishing you peace.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I have been feeling very alone. This board saved me last time but I had to stop posting when I was pregnant again as reading about everyone's problems caused me too much upset for them and fear for myself.

Cant, I'm amazed there are so many others who have been through it twice. I remember reading your story back in April and being in awe at what you'd been through and now here I am too.

Goingdownhill, my husband says no because of the impact on my mental and physical health. He says he wants the normal happy me back but I'd say she's gone for ever anyway. We have one child but I yearn for one more, he doesn't think it's that important.

Yep I totally understand. My husband does not truly understand the desperation I feel for another baby. My case is of course weaker as we already have 3. He can not watch me go through it all again. I understand why he feels like he does and in my head I know he is probably right, if I see a newborn I cary every time someone tells me they are pregnant I cry. I cannot imagine going the rest of my life feeling like this.

I don't know what the answer is. I think for men a baby is not as real until it is there, as a mother you love it from the moment you know you are pregnant.

I hope you can both reach an outcome that you can go forward happily. x

After my first termination I felt a desperate overwhelming urge to be pregnant again ASAP and that would make everything ok again. Now that I've been twice bitten I feel mostly hopeless, like I'm cursed, or there's something wrong with me and my only healthy child was an exception. I still have the desperate ache for another child but feel that it may be impossible for me.
The original plan for this pregnancy was CVS test at 11(1), results at 11(3) and termination if necessary at 11(5). My consultant promised me this but then of course the results didn't come back and then the termination was cancelled so I'll end up terminating at 14(2) instead.

I feel like I am always in that 1% of people stuff goes wrong for. Apologies for self pity!

I had a miscarriage at 11 weeks and then a medical termination for Patau's syndrome at 21 weeks. I am so sorry this has happened to you. These were my first two pregnancies, I spent my third pregnancy in denial that there was ever going to be a baby. It is so so hard.

I am afraid I have no wisdom to offer, only my sympathy and support. I hope it all goes as peacefully as possible for you all.

Eggletinaclock, just had to post to say that I understand all your feelings. I had two mcs and then a termination at 16 weeks for med reasons. I had had good results from the nuchal fold but insisted on doing the amnio for my own peace of mind - everyone thought I was mad. I also had genetic testing because of the MCs as well and was told that it was random bad luck.

To be waiting for your results for 19 days and then for the termination to be cancelled and all this in the middle of the bloody Xmas and New year must be utter, utter torture. I had my termination 4 days after I got the amnio results (had to fly back to the UK from where I was living in Switzerland to get the termination) and those 4 days were the worst of my life. Like you I just wanted to end a horrible nightmare. Afterwards I cried for weeks - I think I was just in shock.

For you to have gone through this twice is unspeakable. I think you should expect to experience almost a form of PTSD - I think I did. So don't ask too much of yourself right now.

But also the chances are that this is terrible luck and not something that is genetically destined to happen to you. I too felt that I was doomed to have this happen over and over again and somehow it was preordained. But I was wrong and now I have my two healthy children and that awful time feels like another world.

My oldest was born less than a year after the termination (she was premature but fine) and the second born when I was nearly 41. They have healed all the wounds and I hope when you are ready you will find the same healing.

I've had two terminations for T21 when I was 38 and 39 - it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I had a 4 yr old and desperately wanted a second (I'm an only child and didn't want DS1 to be one). I was almost obsessive about wanting a second. We thought v. hard about the decision to terminate - I have a relative with T21 and also one of my parents has a physical disability. I knew that with little local family support, a young child and the demands of a disabled child which seemed to get greater as they got older that reluctantly it was the right decision - one we think about every day and frequently still shed a tear over. We've kept all the scan photos and a few cards we were sent at the time and when my time is up I know I want these to be buried with me (morbid I know but I still think of them as my children).

We did try again and I got pregnant about 7mths later after the second termination and we had a DS2 - I was 41 by then - he has helped us move on and I know have the family I've always wanted but my two other boys are close to my heart always.

On a practical note we had genetic councelling but it revealed nothing - we were just very unlucky. We also had councelling from the hospital which really helped. Finally we got in touch with ARC and they are brilliant - we've blubbed on the phone to the staff who have listened and get their newsletter which is supportive and helps us realise we are not alone. We also did some fundraising for them which helped us feel like we were doing something positive.

Hope this helps and you find some peace and comfort - thinking of you

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate hearing your experiences. I'm actually still with my counsellor from the first termination so I have that support in place. I spoke to ARC last time and they were great, I'm sure I'll use them again. I have also applied to join their forum as I thought there might be more 'repeated disaster' people posting there. I honestly feel that I will never heal until I have a second child, as like so many people have said, that seems to have made the difference.

I think if we were to try again I would have to absolutely hide my fears from my husband and try to keep a lid on my anxiety. I managed that this time until I was told I wouldn't get the CVS results until after Xmas and was already bleeding consistently and kind of knew it was all going wrong. That was when the real torture began and I have been utterly useless since. I'm wracked with guilt about leaving my husband and parents to do everything and not even caring for my daughter myself. It genuinely seems impossible to me that most people just have a couple of kids, no problems at all.

Eggletina, I can't offer any advice as to how to deal with repeated TOP for abnormalities but I can offer sympathy, support and all best wishes. DH and I terminated a very, very much wanted second pregnancy for abnormalities (T21 plus significant heart defects) in April 2010 at 21 weeks and it was the most heart breaking, shocking and profoundly upsetting thing I have ever, ever had to do.

I am so, so sorry you are having to go through this again and in such a way. I can entirely understand the desperate drive to have a second child - for me it was almost as consuming as my desire for my first child.

I wish you as peaceful and straightforward an experience as possible on Monday (or before if it comes to that). As someone else up the thread said, and as you have the misfortune of knowing, don't expect too much of yourself at all and don't feel guilty about how much you can manage with your DD. You can only do what you can do and you are in such a horrible situation.

I'll be thinking of you on Monday.

I am sorry to read about all these losses on this thread. It feels so unfair and unnecessary.

Eggletina, I too felt guilty about putting my DD1 through my emotional turmoil twice. I think it's impossible not to. But, you know, it isn't your fault. You are doing everything you can. Try not to beat yourself up, just take it one day at a time, and accept the support you get.

You have a healthy DD1;the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour to have another baby. I do know that odds are utterly uncomforting given that you, like me, have been the one in xxxxxx twice, but they are nonetheless true. And you have to get through Monday first. Just do whatever it takes, rely on whoever you can. It is familiar the second time around and that makes it both easier and harder, somehow. But you will get through it.

We are all with you, and with the other posters who have been through it too.

Thanks so much Cant, and everybody, I am so glad you've all responded. I'm not too scared about Monday, more about whether I am going to totally disintegrate mentally afterwards and how long it will take me to recover physically after a delivery at that gestation. Last time I was very ill for a fortnight afterwards due to retained material becoming infected. I'm wise to that now and will probably request a scan the next day to check it's all clear. I am supposed to be at work on Thursday and as nobody knew I was pregnant I'd rather keep it that way. I plan to phone in sick if necessary but lie about why I'm off.

I'm off to bed now, I wish us all a happier new year.

Eggletina, I managed to keep both of my terminations secret - the first at 13 weeks just by pretending to have had flu (easy enough as I returned to work with the cough from hell) and the second time, I was so paranoid that I didnt tell people I was pregnant either, even though it was 20 weeks when it all went wrong. I felt like I could deal with myself better if I didn't have other people sympathizing/being curious/talking about me.

You won't fall apart. You will get there. I felt exhausted, as though the trauma had wiped me out. I know it hits us all differently. But you will get through.

Beware of resentment too. I found myself feeling bitter about other people's easily achieved bumps. And of course we never really know if they are easily achieved or not... but it still hurt.

Thinking of you.

Cant, one of the things I found hardest last time was meeting people who asked when I was due and having to repeatedly explain what had happened. I hated people's pity and their frequent awkwardness around me. I have dropped a lot of acquaintances as a result and never now socialise outside of my family. I feel free at work as I only started recently and people don't know what happened previously and just treat me normally.

I have also experienced the most horrendous resentment, bitterness and jealousy of the seemingly endless list of people who have had pregnancies and babies since my first loss. I am not proud of this but it is the truth. I know we don't know what people have been through, but in many of these case I know they have been through nothing out of the ordinary and I find that very hard to deal with. As someone else said earlier, everytime I hear a new pregnancy or birth announcement I feel physically sick. Becoming pregnant again had relieved these feelings somewhat, but I'm sure it going wrong again is only going to magnify them and I hate what this does to me as a person.

However, your comment about not knowing anybody who had been through this three times has given me some comfort. I will wait to see how bad tomorrow and the aftermath are before having a very hard think about the future.

Eggletina - I am so so sorry to have just seen this and to know what you have to go through again tomorrow. Like you, and some others, I have had 2 tfmrs - the first for Turners, when I was told the baby would not survive the pregnancy (a bit like you this time) and then one 6 months later for Edward's. My heart truly goes out to you, I too felt as though I was cursed and would never have a healthy baby. But I did (my baby is 17 weeks now), and I feel sure you will too if you can find the strength to try again. As Can't says, although there are quite a few of us who have had to bear this tragedy twice, none of us have had it happen three times. Though I know how hard it is to believe once you have been so unlucky already.

Your feelings about other people being pregnant are totally natural. Both my sister and my cousin were pregnant when I lost my 2nd baby and for ages I couldn't see them as I found it too hard. It seems so unfair when people get pregnant and have babies easily.

When I got pregnant this most recent time, I didn't tell anyone other than DH and one close friend until after the 20 week scan. I thought it was really obvious that I was putting on weight but no-one noticed at all so I was able to keep it quiet and continue sort of in denial which is how I coped with most of the pregnancy to be honest. I am 36 by the way so a very similar age to you. I ended up getting pregnant accidentally the month after I lost my 2nd baby. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this (totally freaked me out at the time) but it did sort of take the decision out of my hands in a way.

Much, much love to you and your family. This is such a horrible time, but you will survive it together. I will be thinking about you tomorrow and wishing you strength to bear this new sadness. So many hugs to you xxxxxxx

Thank you grandj, I recognise your name from before, along with many that Can't listed, but I didn't know you had all been through it twice as well. I am so sorry for your and everybody else's losses, but hearing about them really does help me to feel less of a tragic oddity.

I don't really belong on this thread, but somehow ended up reading it. I feel so sad for all of you who are experiencing such heart ache. I wish you all hope and peace in 2012, xx

Eggletina - I remember you well from the other thread and have often wondered how you and some of the other ladies around at that time are doing. I'm so very sorry to read this. Its hard to find words, life can be so very cruel. The other ladies on here who have been through this twice can truly understand what you are going through. They are all remarkable, they have all survived and many many have their happy ending. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. Lots of love, Cherry x

Eggletina, the jealousy/bitterness/anger dissipate eventually, and don't mean anything about who you are as a person. Having said that, I identify entirely with your account of how your experience changed your relationships with others. I felt as though I had to shrink my world somehow, to protect myself. I cut myself off from people who I expected were about to get pregnant and have it all work out. And although now I have no issues with other people's pregnancies, because I have Babycan't, I'm pretty sure I am different from how I was before all of this.

I will be thinking of you tomorrow. I agree that it helps somewhat to know you aren't a medical freak, that this happening twice is actually not so uncommon. I should say that I always felt, posting here, as though my story wasn't so cheering (because it wasn't a one-off- I had the horror twice, as you have, as others have too) as it wasn't reassuring - but Babycan't is worth it all. And I honestly don't know of anyone going through this three times (thank goodness). Keep hold of that in your head tomorrow if you can.

Eggletina I hope it all passes smoothly for you. I can only echo what Cant has said. It does get easier.

I used to post on the pregnant or trying to conceive thread under AP but no longer do so as I feel finally at peace with what happened. I too had two terminations and was referred to a geneticist regarding our prognosis. I have heard of several who have had terminations or losses twice but I have not yet come across anyone who has experienced this 3 times. I know that statistics are pointless right now but it is worth mentioning.

I now have two gorgeous children. Of which we never expected our DS to ever be here. It is possible although I know right now it seems so distant. Take one day at a time. Do not feel guilty for resenting others, this is entirely natural. I still cannot spend time with other mums who do not appear to appreciate their luck and family circumstance. Do whatever you need to do to get through this.

ARC are fantastic and gave me a contact detail for counseling for my DH. It really helped as after our news we both were in different spaces about what to do for the future.

Thinking of you. X

Just sending my sympathies too, Eggletina, so sorry to read what you are having to go through. Again. So unfair.

I have no experience of late termination or miscarriage, but just felt the need to add my experiences of repeated (early) pregnancy loss and genetic testing. And maternal age: I had 3 MMCs, all before 10 weeks, had surgical ERCOP x3. Genetic testing showed me to carry a 'balanced translocation' of chromosones 13 and 14 which basically ment I was perfectly healthy but had a 1 in 4 chance of carrying a child with trisomy 13 or trisomy 14.
I had my healthy DS1 aged 37 after 5 years of TTC, DS2 a year later, a further MMC, then 2 more boys . I was 44 when I had DS4. All boys are healthy; one of them carries the same tramslocation as I do (as does my mum btw).
All my miscarriages were caused by other genetic defects than the ones I had a particularly high risk for according to testing of tissue.

So, yes, maternal age IS a riskfactor and I cannot begin to image what conflicting feelings both you and your DH must have towards considering to embark on this journey again. But IMO don't let your age alone stop you.
I do of course hope all your tests are normal; in my case the abnormal result just added to anxiety, simply ment that I insisted on CVS for each of my pregnancies and that my ability to live in denial is world-class.

I really hope that tomorrow will pass quickly without too much physical pain and that you can find a way to heal inside and out again.
Thinking of you and your DH x.

Hi Cherry and thanks for your message.

Can't, I'm glad you identify with my experiences with others. I have been open about it but it makes me feel very uncomfortable. It is exactly as you describe it, a shrinking of one's social circle to just a few 'safer' people.

Beanut, I'm sorry you went through this too but thanks for your message. This issue of it so rarely happening three times is giving me just the tiniest glimpse of hope for the future. I am also so intolerant of whoever I deem to be ungrateful mothers too. It's awful.

I'm going to go to bed now and hope that things go quickly tomorrow and I can come home to sleep in my own bed (although I'm anticipating complications as I feel so perpetually unlucky at the moment). I am very very sad and fearful of the future but at least I am not frightened of tomorrow. The maternity hospital I am treated at is absolutely fantastic, the staff are genuinely excellent and I have no reason to believe they will let me down. I'll let you all know how I get on.

I am so glad I came back here, the collective resources and experiences here are amazing and all of you who have kindly taken the time to post have helped make my dreadful situation a little bit easier.

I just wanted to say, I am thinking of you today. I hope things go as smoothly as they can do, and that you are at home again as soon as possible.

Lots of love. x

Like goingdownhill, I am thinking of you too today Eggletina.