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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to invite 'brown' children to dds party

103 replies

onebadbaby · 09/07/2010 10:19

This is probably in the wrong topic, but is anyone elses DCs racist. My dd age 4 seems to have a natural dislike of other children who are not white. She refers to them as 'the brown children' and doesn't want to invite them to her party. We live an area where there is a high percentage of people from pakistani and indian origin and several in her class at school. I hoped that mixing at school would help her have a better of understanding of other cultures, and she has learnt about different festivals etc, but she still seems to see skin colour as making the children different to her. I thought at this age she wouldn't even notice and would just accept friends based on personality. I have tried to explain that we don't choose friends based on colour, but on whether they are kind, or like to play the same games as you etc but it hasn't seemed to work. She says she "likes pink skin". I don't think this attitude is coming from the other kids at school as she isn't using racist terms or names, it just seems to be her own feelings which she is expressing, and it certainly hasn't come from me or dh.

Anyway, I have told her she has to invite everyone to her party- am I doing the right thing?

OP posts:
smee · 09/07/2010 11:36

The fact that the 3 white girls in the class are sticking together would worry me a bit. I'd talk to the school and see what they make of it, as it's sad if there's a divide, so I'd want to know what's causing it. Do a lot of the kids speak a different language in the playground? Is that causing a divide?

exexpat · 09/07/2010 11:39

FioFio are you absolutely sure that your DCs have never noticed skin colour? I'm sure if you ask them to describe what their friends look like, they would mention skin colour as well as hair colour, height etc. It may be that they have noticed, but don't feel it is important or relevant, which is great.

But if you read the article I linked to above (here it is again Even Babies Discriminate) you may start wondering (as I did about my DCs) if they have noticed but don't mention it or ask questions because they have realised that it is a taboo subject. Specially if you say you are 'shocked' that anyone else's DCs has noticed (rather obvious) racial differences....

camaleon · 09/07/2010 11:40

Agree with smee. I would speak with the school. As for the birthday, I would stick to original plan too. If you had thought of inviting all girls or all class, you cannot invite 'only white people'. HOwever, if you were going to invite friends, there is no reason to impose any particular child.

Colliecross · 09/07/2010 11:41

I heard a fascinating comment from a little boy of about 6 in the school playground.
He pointed to a (blond blue eyed)new child and said that he didn't like him.
I replied that they didn't know each other yet.
6 year old said "I know but I don't like the shape of his head."
(It was actually a bit flat at the back but they had only been in the same playground for a few moments!)

FioFio · 09/07/2010 11:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

loopyloops · 09/07/2010 11:57

Have a look at the letter box library, who have a variety of books for young children that tackle this subject, such as "we all sing with the same voice", "all kinds of people" and loads of other topics that are difficult to deal with, ie. bullying, estranged parents, death and loads of lovely language books.

I agree, invite all the girls. Your daughter will learn in her own time that her "brown" friends are just as nice as her "pink" ones.

haoshiji · 09/07/2010 12:01

Make sure you play Ebony And Ivory at the party. That should sort things out.

Songbiirdheartsfootball · 09/07/2010 12:02

I think you are handling it well op, it will also give you a chance to see the dynamics for yourself.

I must say though 4 yo children are not racist although they definitely do notice skin colour. My dc's although they have the same biological parents are two distinct complexions. My ds looks afro-carribean like my side of the family, my daughter looks arab like their fathers side. It was always something that ds noticed as in "I look like mummy and dsis looks like baba, or dsis is white and I'm black" etc.

What really stood out for me though was that when he went to nursery it was a very multicultural nursery, every ethnicity possible (well maybe not every but it was certainly well mixed). I then changed his school at reception. This school was in a predominantly white area and thus his class reflected this. When I asked him about his new class he said he wanted to play with x because he was the same colour as he was. I found this odd because he had always mixed with I obviously then had a discussion with him "you shouldn't play with someone just because they are the same colour etc" and he didn't bring it up again, so neither did I.

FreakoidOrganisoid · 09/07/2010 12:03

My dc are mixed race and DD (4) is immediately drawn to anyone brown, especially if they are "light brown" like she is. When she started preschool ALL the little girls were blonde apart from her and one other girl (who is white but with olivey skin and dark hair) and that was who she first made friends with.

DD is very aware of it and has been from a very young age but ds doesn't seem to be yet, maybe because he has a big sister who is the same colour as him whereas dd just knew she was a different colour to mummy AND daddy

Songbiirdheartsfootball · 09/07/2010 12:03

lmao haoshiji

mrsruffallo · 09/07/2010 12:04

I wouldn't be worried at this age. It's a purely aesthetic choice, not really racism.
Of course you must invite all the children and explain to her why but don't worry too much, she'll get over it

proudnsad · 09/07/2010 12:09

My youngest dc was 'rascist' for a few months! It was awful. She would screw her face up at pictures of black people and shouted 'What's that black one doing?! as postie approached our house. Mortified ain't the word.

I'd say 50% are non white in her class. This did not come from school, friends, family, us (obviously, as I hope is a given!!!!). I spoke to a black friend about it to get perspective and she gave all the advice above but laughed about it as the madness of being four years old.

But your question is a bit barmy - you would be being VVVVVU if you didn't invite the 'brown kids'!!!!

Pavlov · 09/07/2010 12:10

could it just be that your dd just loves pink? My Dd is obsessed by it, also aged 4. She pays no attention to the skin colour of her friends, that I have noticed anyway, but was very keen to be sure that her friends from nursery wore some pink for her birthday! And when given the choice of anything with different colours, she likes pink. For that reason, she loves her own 'pink' skin.

maryz · 09/07/2010 12:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sithmummy · 09/07/2010 12:46

When dd was in reception, the teacher asked if she could "have a quick word" one day. I was told that dd had refused to sit next to xx (black child) at story time. I was absolutely horrified.

When I asked dd why, saying I thought xx was her friend, she told me that "xx's cheek is so smooth and perfect and chocolate, I just want to lick her. And she might not like that."

When I told xx's mum she screamed with laughter and told me xx had the same urge because she was sure my dd would taste like ice-cream.

IFancyKevinELevin · 09/07/2010 13:33

We use a cleaning company at home which was owned by an African couple and all of the cleaners were black African men and ladies (women). They would be different contractors on a weekly basis about 6 all together. My son, if we were home would follow them round, helping to clean, having a chat and making them squash if it was hot.

One afternoon we were in our local supermarket and my son saw a black couple, the man, like my dh was in his Army uniform (We live in a garrison town). DS ran up to the couple shouting "hello, mummy look, it's the cleaners, it's the cleaners, hello!"

I had to apologise for the misunderstanding -the guy was an officer in the army. As I led my DS away he said "but it's the cleaners with the black faces"

We have never ever used the term black cleaners, black faces or even brought it up in the conversation, and he's never used the term to any of our friends from our old stomping ground in south London who are Afro-Carribean.

Possibly because of the sheer lack of non-whites in this part of Wiltshire he made the connection. I still don't know where the phrase came from though....

PuzzleAddict · 09/07/2010 13:42

Yes you are doing right thing, OP, but... the Pakistani girls won't come anyway -- won't RSVP either. Just my experience! 50-50 on whether any Indian kids come.

Maybe it's something the 'brown' kids get taught at home, to keep themselves separate to keep themselves safe from bullies -- but they won't be expected or probably allowed to mix, anyway; not unless you're neighbours or otherwise regularly mixing with the parents and the parents feel they know you very well.

smee · 09/07/2010 15:19

PuzzleAddict, that's a massive catch all. I know it's true in some communities, but definitely not in all.

roundthebend4 · 09/07/2010 15:41

Op you are doing right thing because if you let. Dd invite only one group of children based on skin colour even though dd probably has other reasons for not liking them nothing to do with colour ,you would be enforcing the mixed up idea she has that. White is friends only

But I would not worry to much ,maybe just something to keep eye on

capricorn76 · 09/07/2010 16:02

She may be getting it from the media. As someone of mixed-race I know how powerful it can be at convincing young girls that white females especially blond ones are more attractive and just overall better than everyone else, plus non-white females are hardly ever on tv or magazines front covers. I even saw an advert recently that basically said that curly hair was yucky. She may associate brown skin with negativity. Little kids are very quick at picking up what's going on in the world around them.

Oblomov · 09/07/2010 16:20

I am not sure i agree with ladya and smee.
ds1(6) in year 1, apparently they have had quite a few problems with some children in that year and comments about childrens colour of skin.
one boy said, he just didn't like it. he said he didn't like rice pudding either, but he didn't know why.
my ds on the other hand seems oblivious to anything. was trying to broach the subject and he politely said 'no mummy, i do know. joshua D is black you know. black. he's fine with this, of course.as are we. why wouldn't anyone be".
that told me !!

smee · 09/07/2010 16:29

Oblomov, good point, but from what the OP has said it's not just about one child, it's about all the 'brown' kids not playing with the white kids. Makes me think it's a bit more of a worry somehow.

melikalikimaka · 09/07/2010 16:32

Although my DS1 went to a very mixed nursery, he went to school where the children were all white. One day, when he was 5 yrs we were in a shop and a girl was standing next to him. He just looked up at me and said 'Mom, why is that girl brown?' I couldn't believe that he had said it, I started to splutter an explaination and her mother raged 'She is brown because her Dad is Forrin!' I found it really embarrasing, I thought he knew all about different cultures from nursery, it seemed he had forgotten. I felt a little protective also because he was an innocent 5 year old and he didn't say anything bad, did he? We made a sharp exit!

upahill · 09/07/2010 16:39

Sorry Gorionine but your first post where you say your DS said ' Come here woman' has really tickled me and made me laugh!!

It reminds me of when my youngest DS was 5 and shouted that his older brother was a bugger. When I (just about calmly) asked why he said that he replied ' well, he keeps bugging me!!'

cockles · 09/07/2010 16:39

I've read some recent article (can't remember where sorry) about kids and race - 4-5 is just the age when they are obsessed with categories and it's better to talk about race as we do with gender, rather than ignore it so they think it's taboo. 4 isn't too young to talk about racism in basic terms. And even about why the brown kids might not be playing with the white kids.