to invite 'brown' children to dds party

[onebadbaby]

This is probably in the wrong topic, but is anyone elses DCs racist. My dd age 4 seems to have a natural dislike of other children who are not white. She refers to them as 'the brown children' and doesn't want to invite them to her party. We live an area where there is a high percentage of people from pakistani and indian origin and several in her class at school. I hoped that mixing at school would help her have a better of understanding of other cultures, and she has learnt about different festivals etc, but she still seems to see skin colour as making the children different to her. I thought at this age she wouldn't even notice and would just accept friends based on personality. I have tried to explain that we don't choose friends based on colour, but on whether they are kind, or like to play the same games as you etc but it hasn't seemed to work. She says she "likes pink skin". I don't think this attitude is coming from the other kids at school as she isn't using racist terms or names, it just seems to be her own feelings which she is expressing, and it certainly hasn't come from me or dh.

Anyway, I have told her she has to invite everyone to her party- am I doing the right thing?

Well I am asian and 'brown' as are my kids. My DD has also said she doesnt like brown children! I found it quite funny as she is obviously brown! (she is also 4 going on 5).

How do you approach the 'colour' talk with kids? When my DS was that age he said he was white like mummy, and his sister and dad were chocolate. Me and DS are fair skinned but brown nonetheless! He has grown out of it and accepts that it doesnt matter what colour you are. Even tho he'll still say he is light brown his sister is dark brown and his black friends are chocolate (I think its a much nicer term!)

Kids will learn and you are so doing the right thing!

Sometimes they do just notice different colours - well it's logical they would really, even if it's an innocent observation that "I need a different coloured pencil to draw Jenny, and Fred needs a red one for his hair."

I think at least part of it is kids wanting to sort people and objects - I overheard two kids talking at the dolls house, with the requisite carefully ethnically mixed dolls, in all innocence saying, "OK, you have the brown ones to play with and I'll have the white ones." I didn't jump on them hysterically with all anti-racism guns blaring there - but we did do some work about how people look different but are the same really at a later date.

Just invite the whole class. If she's a smart cookie she'll realize more kids = more presents!

Your dd is probably too young at the moment but I told my dd's (aged 7 and 5) about this and it really made them think especially as I have one with blue eyes and one with brown eyes.

But you are doing the right thing.

I really really hate the phrase "Chocolate".

i agree with smee, it might be worth looking at the way things fall in the playground. at dd's nursery they are very insistent that there is no divide in the groupings, however for most of the parents there simply is a divide between the veil-wearing and non veil-wearing mums. luckily for me my pal decided to cover her face half-way through term so we already had an established friendship, but i know that i am unusual in our nursery in chatting to the muslim mums. and it IS exclusively a muslim thing, because there are all races and religions in that nursery and all parents mix well. weird but true, and it's definitely something the head is conscious of.

I read a very interesting article about this a few months ago - from the US, but still relevant in the UK, in Newsweek.

It seems that actually talking about differences in skin colour (and pointing out that they are not important) is a better tactic than either ignoring the fact that people look different or just making vague comments about how we are all the same underneath.

Children do naturally think in terms of 'us and them' - look how easily they can be convinced that their class/school house/colour team at sports day is better than everyone else even though they are just randomly allocated groups, or that girls (or boys) are better than boys (or girls). Skin or hair colour is an easy distinguishing mark to base those divisions on.

I've been on both sides of this - I have two white children, now back in the UK in an area with mainly white children but a good sprinkling of other races, but the DCs were born overseas and at various times were the only non-Asian children in their nurseries/kindergartens, where they were on the receiving end of the 'us and them' mentality.

can you not just teach dd the BIOLOGICAL reason for different colored skin?

And show her lots of white peoples's skin. None of it is the same color

outoftowner - very interesting link, the eye colour distinction sounds like a good way to approach it.

Our family & friends cover pretty much every colour in the spectrum. DD has 2 godfathers called Peter. Aged about 2 she started calling one of them 'white Peter' and the other Peter is Uncle Peter. Around this time she was also marvelling that she has brown skin, Papa has brown skin, but Mummy you've got white skin - followed by laughs. I had 'brown skin' for a while after we went on holiday.

We taught her white Peter's last name so now she proudly calls him by his full name.

There are only 3 non white girls in the class and some boys as well- I have been in and helped and noticed that the 3 girls do stick together, but didn't notice the boys as much. One girl in particular seems to be disliked by the other girls, my dd says she is not kind which I accept. We are inviting the whole class, boys and girls.

Most of our friends are white, but not all and our next door neighbour's son is mixed race and she plays with him fine- doesn't seem to notice. I chat to some mums in the playground but to be honest and not close friends with any of them, white or otherwise. Maybe it is just a phase. Think might mention it to school, maybe they all need some PSE lessons on this.

I have also read that small ones at the age of 4 sometimes tend to discriminate against those who have anything different from the one calling the shots. It may be that skin colour is what resonates at the moment as it is the most visible difference. Of course, this is also a good argument for discussing it rather than ignoring it as exexpat says.

My brown dd2 refused to play with a little girl last week as she 'looked a bit English' (we live in Australia) so it cuts both ways. She also asked the optician if the water in the water was 'only for Chinese people' as we told her she couldn't have any because it was for the people who worked there.
She has lived here half of her life, she is three now and I never had any of this with my dd1. There is most definitely a racist under-current in Australia and I do think that this has had an effect on my dd2. I bet I get asked once a month in a shopping centre or park where I got her or why she is dark or why she has curly hair. People call her coloured.

When my dd1 went to her first party here in Australia all of the mother's were in the cafe bit wondering why this one particular child wasn't at the party. "All the girls from the class are here" except this they were saying. Commenting on how all the girls were invited. BUT THET WEREN"T - all the white girls were invited. None of the others, except my dd1 with the white mother. I just sat there in disbelief. I didn;t say anything as I had not been there long enough. I cried when I got home though.

see i ahve ds 1 who ha sslight olive tint by way of being half italian , ds 2 is half italian but very very dark makes even italians look pale is very often taken for being asian or part asian , then have dd who is dark hair pale skin then have the pickle blond hair blue eyes and makes milk bottle look tanned.

But it could be like many others said she just does not like them for some reason nothing do with skin colour

@ SC.

On the semantics of this - my sister has adopted some Asian children, and calls their skin tone "bronze". My nieces and nephews call my (white) kids skin tone "pink" (they are redheads/blond!)
Avoiding white and brown works well in our cases, highlighting that we're all colourful.

Of course, invite everyone to the party, and see what friendships develop.

Bloody hell, whereabout in Oz are you cabbage? I have found the opposite TBH (i.e. more racism in London than in Sydney).

I would say that she does have to invite all the children. my dd who's in reception doesn't like 2 "brown" girls (twins) but i think they are quite mean to her. She has other racially different children at her school who she doesn't comment on at all. I do point out that she shouldn't use the term "brown" though, but can't see that this is inherent racism - she is just (in her eyes) using this as a descriptive term.

(and fwiw I am half greek, and was subjected to alot of "half-caste", spik and other name calling, as well as stavros impersonations while I was growing up and would not tolerate racism at all from my children).

agree children most often dont notice things like this. who has been putting these ideas into her head? sounds worrying

I understand your reasoning for inviting all the children.. But I would also remeber that you will need to play defence around the party.. You don't want any of the "less pink" children to be hurt by comments your dc or others might make.

I would also say that while children notice differant colors deciding not to like other children is somethign she has learned (although pretty obviously not from you) I would speak to the teachers at her school.

I think she does not actually like the individual dc, presumably because of the way they have behaved to her at times. They just happen to have brown skin which is why she groups them together.

You say there are a lot of Indian/Pakistani families where you live, so quite a lot of the children in her reception class she classifies as "brown"? Or is it just 2-3 dc? If it is a bigger group, it may not be to do with the behaviour of the children.

You've already spoken to her about it. I wouldn't make a huge thing out of it now but I would gently keep working at it from different angles over the next couple of years.

I think they will all be too busy having fun at the party and they are all used to each other from school so can't see any problems arising really.

my ds would tell me about all his friends at nursery (which was at uni, with lots of different cultures)....and told me his friend Mohammed looked a bit different to him. I asked in what way, and he said "he has lovely curly hair" and looked wistful.

Blimey, SC, what an eye opener for you.

Children do notice different coloured skin. When DD was in reception, she could never remember the names of two of DS's three friends. One she called "DS's brown friend", and I didn't bother to correct it, as he was the only brown friend of the three, and DD liked him. If she'd have called him DS's chocolate friend, I would have corrected her, because I would have felt that she had picked that up from someone, rather than it being from her own innocent thoughts, iyswim.

I kind of thought the other friend might be DS's pink friend - but then I realised he was "DS's fat friend". You can be sure I pretty quickly taught her their names, as I felt that he would have been really hurt to be called that, although again DD wasn't meaning to be horrid!

As to where they pick up negative connotations, like FioFio said, maybe the black or white children might be saying things. Hopefully, it's just a phase. I'd discuss it with her, but not make it a huge thing.

Would you have invited the whole class anyway? or just her friends?