In not wanting The Pope to visit uk at the taxpayers expense?

[Alouiseg]

Apparently The visit wil cost 12m pounds. That's 12 million pounds to be pinched from other budgets. For a man who has been responsible for covering up crimes against children.

My MP will receive an email today and I will make my abhorrence very clear.

wildmutt you say that
"It was very wrong to cover up and hide abusers behind their closed doors and this is as terrible a crime as the abuse itself but they admit now they were wrong"

Do they? On the contrary tey are still covering it up. Look at the reaction to the raid on Belgian bishops last week.

"We should wake up to the fact that we've got to stick up for Christianity in our country because the alternative will be that we end up with an Islamic country"

Nonsense. We'd end up as a secular country, hopefully tolerant of a variety of world views but not in thrall to any one of them.

BTW I have no objection to the pope coming here to visit his fans. It's a free country. More than welcome.

But the idea of it being a state visit, with him parading up and down our streets expecting to be waved and cheered, and with him lecturing parliament on moral values...

...well words fail me.

I'm still slightly stunned at agreeing with alouiseg for once

FWIW I agree with the posters who say this visit is ill-conceived.

Wildmutt have a dog

with him lecturing parliament on moral values...

whaaat?

Hadn't heard that particular bit.

I don't think they are covering up from what I understand the commission were in the middle of an investigation and the police raided their offices and confiscated their files. What they seem to be upset about is that evidence they had received from witnesses would no longer remain private. We don't yet know the full story but at leat the Church had set up a commission to deal with the allegations.

stubbornhubby, can I join you on the pavement?

You wish Grimma, do you think the Islamists are going to be tolerent and happy clappy. Look at Pakistan, Iran, Nigeria, Iraq, Turkey,

Well, I wouldn't mind coming face to face with him. I'd have a few questions for him.
The Catholic Church owes me a more than a few hundred square meals, treatment for mental and physical scars they left me with while in their 'care'.

What about the fact that the Queen is also the (spiritual) head of the Church of England. Should all the other Christians - Free Kirk, Church of Scotland, Baptists, Methodists, etc., not to mention the athiests and people of other faiths - have to contribut to her upkeep or should HER church pay.

I am not saying that all catholics are paedophiles or anything stupid like that. What I am saying is that any catholic who does not stand up and demand that the heirarchy of their faith propely investigate the pardophile incidents that have happened, punish the perpetrators, punish the people who covered up for them and make reparations to the victims is colluding in paedophilia.

Only Catholics? What about the rest of us?

onestonetogo - of course you can.

grimmathenone - he is speaking in westminster hall (my mistake: not parliament) on the Saturday on 'family values'

Note for this event he ceases to be a 'head of state' (it is NOT protocol for heads of state to lecture their hosts on moral values). Instead he conveneniently finds his 'religious leader' hat.

www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/2010/06/will-the-pope-continue-his-attack-on-gay-rights-while-in-uk/

meh.

stubbornhubby: People are born Catholic in so much as Jewish people are born Jews. The reality of the fact is that yes, our parents choose for us but pedantry doesn't add to the argument.

You'll notice I haven't commented on the wisdom of inviting the pope to England especially given it's cost, his background and these austere times and I won't.

My point is solely this. STOP CALLING CATHOLICS PAEDOPHILES.
It's just not true.

Sure, SOME Catholics are, but some Mums and Dads are, some police are. It doesn't make ALL parents or police paedophiles.

To tar all catholics and catholocisim with that brush is no less bollocks than:

"the percentage of paedophiles among catholic priests is significantly higher than the average in society"

or

"surely you see the link between celibacy and paedophilia?"

Wake up!
I'd like to think you're being offensive simply to liven up the thread but I suspect that you're just plain thick!

Easywriter- you ask me where I read the research whereby there are statistically more paedophiles amongst catholic priests than in the rest of the population. It's in a book called "The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read", it's a collection of published articles and research on various religious aspects.

So, let's assume that for some bizarre reason you had to hand over your child to a stranger, they'd be much safer with any stranger in the street than with a catholic priest.

Yes Easywriter, we're all thick and you're right about everything.

Run along now there's a dear.

Dear One stone to go.

That book isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Paedophilia is illegal.

So when they conduct their survey unless all the paedophiles jump up and down and say "Count me! If there are children in this world, I want to abuse them" then you're not going to catch them all.

Therefore you can be sure how many paedophiles there are.

Therefore you can not say which profession they mostly have.

Which means you can't work out which precentage of any profession are paedophiles.

Therefore you are talking shit!

I'm not saying you're wrong until you make up statistics or call thousands of innocent people paedophiles.

Mumblechum please enlighten us and explain the link between Celibacy and paedophilia.

Be a dear!

Easywriter, how many vicars & ministers of other religions have been found to be running paedophile rings? Maybe there are a few paedophiles in those groups but no higher than the population at large, because they're allowed to have a normal sex life, to marry, to bring up a family.

I don't have any statistics because it's not exactly something likely to be published in the diocese accounts, but I would have thought it is common sense that when you take away a fundamental part of what it is to be human (the normal urge to have sex within a loving relationship), that that urge is more likely (note, I'm not saying always by any means), to present in an unhealthy way.

Easy writer - I have not said that all catholics are paedophiles. I have said that the catholic church has (and continues to) cover it up. Therefore the leader of the church is fair game for protest.

especially IMO - if he rides up and down whitehall in a popemobile

www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,687374,00.html

But paedophiles are not after normal sex life are they? So how is it common sense to say that celibacy makes one paedophile?

Another possible contributing factor in turning a catholic priest into a paedophile can be not only celibacy, but their ingrained obsession with sin, shame, guilt, etc, all of which cannot be healthy for the mind.

Easywriter, unfortunately you embody what's wrong with most catholics: the total denial and dismissa of anything different from their belief. In this case, you declare a book "not worth the paper it's printed on", only because this book presents the EVIDENCE about paedo-rates among catholic priests. Your attitude is what helps these criminals carry on. The catholic church needs a change in their culture and mentaity of secrecy.
Remember Mr Ratzinger wrote a circular letter saying that anyone who brought to the attention of the authorities any case of child sex-abuse would be instantly excommunicated! Of course, no mention of excommunicating those committing the abuse! (apparently, only 10% of abusers get excommunicated. While 60% are simply forbidden form reciting mass).
Wake up and smell the stench coming from the Vatican!

I have not said that all Catholics are paedophiles. I have said that any catholic who does not challenge the church hierarchy on thei subject is colluding with paedophiles.