In not wanting The Pope to visit uk at the taxpayers expense?

[Alouiseg]

Apparently The visit wil cost 12m pounds. That's 12 million pounds to be pinched from other budgets. For a man who has been responsible for covering up crimes against children.

My MP will receive an email today and I will make my abhorrence very clear.

They have no moral aothority at all! Financual control, yes, but the purpose of the Catholic Church is to be a moral aothority! The purpse of drug companies os to maek money.

the thing about the pope is : he's holding a parade!

if big pharma held a parade, plenty of people would no doubt turn out ot boo them.

"The money should be diverted to helping victims of abuse not paying for the head of an organised pedophile ring to be worshipped."

How [very] dare you?!

I'm a Catholic and VERY DEFINATELY NOT a paedophile!

Just because the drug companies are not churches does not absolve them from moral obligations.

I think the UK Catholic community have paid enough tax to justify this visit. The Pope ain't perfect, I wouldn't have a Pope myself, I would have women priests and change the whole organisation. But it isn't up to me. Many Catholics love the Pope, warts and all. He's their spiritual leader. They've paid their taxes and have definitely funded a few things for you no doubt and me.
Let them have what they value. It's probably the same amount of money that the queen spends on her horses a y ear and we subsidise because she pays NISH taxes relative to her ridiculous wealth.

i m h o .

Easywriter, you may not be a paedophile (like most of your "lot"), but the pope himself has actively covered up paedo-priests and has actively opposed the justice system so those paedophiles would not be prosecuted. In my book, that makes him a criminal and as bad as the paedophioes themselves so should be charged and should stand trial in a court of law.

she is OUR queen though. the Pope isn't part of the historic fabric of British Life.

easywriter while catholicism is nothing to do with paedophilia, the catholic CHURCH does seem to be invovled in hushing it up and turning a blind eye.

the pope could open up all their records to the police tomorrow...

Most of our "lot" are not paedophiles either!

Most priests aren't paedophiles in the same way in which most Doctors are not murderers despite past examples e.g. Harold Shipman.

And just for the record there is no "may" about my status of not being a paedophile.

Whilst there are questions to be answered by some people within the Catholic church do not for a second think that most Catholics find child abuse every bit as abhorent as any other non-Catholic, non-paedophile.

Onestone you and Alouiseq are confusing the argument by your dislike of Catholocism.
I assume that had you even a modicum of intelligence that it is the child abuse that you object to and not the catholic.

I think the child abuse issue is totally irrelevant. It's just too expensive given the state of the economy.

Easywriter why aren't the catholic church, and the pope even now fully coopoerating with the police in various countries?

Of coures individual catholics aren't paedophiles. However, in my opinion, a blind alliegance to the hierarchy of the Catholic Church AS IT STANDS TODAY is colluding in paedophilia. There was a systemic cover up and until the powers that be are prepared to properly investigate, punish the guilty and take full responsibility, the Church has lost all credibility.

I'm not talking about being a Christian, or even being a Catholic. I am talking about offering support to the Pope and his minions - all of whom are guilty of covering up, and therefore prolonging the abuse.

good article

www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,704772,00.html

"she is OUR queen though. the Pope isn't part of the historic fabric of British Life."

Remember Henry VIII? What about religion prior to Henry VIII?
It's not quite that simple, Catholiscm is part of British Life.

"easywriter while catholicism is nothing to do with paedophilia, the catholic CHURCH does seem to be invovled in hushing it up and turning a blind eye."

NO! Very specific PEOPLE have been involved in covering things up. NOT the Catholic church.

"the pope could open up all their records to the police tomorrow..."

So could the English Government open all their files on say, security matters of England, but we all know that isn't going to happen, so back in the real world...

I dont understand why the Popes visit will be paid for by the country he is visiting?

The Standard ran an article yesterday listing the Queens outgoings and it appears she pays for her own trips.

Let Vatican City pay, they are loaded!

Well on easywriter, 'security matters' are by their nature secure. Whatever you think about the security services they depend upon secrecy. There is no valid reason for the Catholic church to be secret.

Seeker people are born Catholics (obviously you can choose to be one but in the main).

Being a catholic does not mean I collude with paedophiles or condone such behaviour.

The problem you are experiencing is classic you are generalising and saying X is a paedophile and is also a priest, therefore Y million people who are of the same relidion as that priest are/ condone/ collude with paedophiles.

And that's just bloody stupid!

Easywriter, well actually the percentage of paedophiles among catholic priests is significantly higher than the average in society. And I'm pretty sure there are more paedo priests than doctor-murderers.

Orm Religion and government were inseparable 500 years ago, probably even more recently, so secrecy for Catholicism is ingrained through a number of centuries.

OK The government could order the opening of say all NHS files or police files. Interesting to some (say people concerned with miscarriages of justice or accidents) but they don't.

Onestone I doubt that's true!

If it is get your facts out and prove it.
Strangley paedophiles aren't standing up to be counted whatever their profession.

Stick to your arguments but don't slag of Catholics/ Cathlicisim neither are in any way connected to paedophilia.

The paedophiles are specific people who happen to be priests. I'm sure some doctors, policemen, teachers are paedophiles but the ntire medical, police and teaching professions are not being branded paedophiles.

Do you see?

But Easywriter, surely you see the link between celibacy and paedophilia?

And no one is born a Catholic. It's not like Islam where you can be killed for leaving the faith.

My mum & sis are catholic, my dad and I aren't. Never been any issue whatsoever.

easywriter no one is born catholic (snort!) they are made catholic by their parents

"NO! Very specific PEOPLE have been involved in covering things up. NOT the Catholic church"

one of those specific people is the Pope, and that's why I am going to stand on the pavement and boo him when he comes to London

"the pope could open up all their records to the police "
I meant: their records relating to paedophile activity by priests. they should hand over everything they know. (as shoudl any other organisation or individual sheltering a paedophile)

Are there any other organizations in the UK which are keeping documents pertaining to child abuse secret?

If so, they certainly should be compelled to hand them over to the police.

One would have hoped that an organization which purports to be a moral authority would do this as a matter of course and not require compulsion.

No church should be allowed to be above the law.

Altinkum I must correct you - it was Mr Gordon Brown that formally invited the Pope to visit our country during a private audience with him in Feb 2009.

David Cameron at the time was quoted as saying he was "delighted" to hear of the possible visit and "Such a visit - the first in over a quarter of a century - would be greatly welcomed not only by Roman Catholics but by the country as a whole." So he can't now say he's not happy about it can he!

The Catholic church in the UK also formally invited the Pope back in 2007 and so they will be covering the costs for the parts of the visit that they are organising. The funds coming from donations of the parishioners.

I think it will be very important for our country as it will show the world we are still a Christian country. We should wake up to the fact that we've got to stick up for Christianity in our country because the alternative will be that we end up with an Islamic country. No thanks!

Yes the Catholic church has problems and they need to acknowledge and address the child abuse horrors as they are now doing. It was very wrong to cover up and hide abusers behind their closed doors and this is as terrible a crime as the abuse itself but they admit now they were wrong. Having been in existance for over 2000 years and with 2 billion worldwide followers there is far more to the Catholic church than child abuse yet this is the story that grabs the headlines and sells the papers. Sadly child abuse will exist wherever there are children in care - in other religions, at home, state run care, the police, schools, nurseries and there have been plenty of cover ups over the years. We now regard children's care and their rights very differently to 30, 40, 50 years ago and it's not just the Catholic church that has alot to be sorry about.

"We should wake up to the fact that we've got to stick up for Christianity in our country because the alternative will be that we end up with an Islamic country"

Eh?

"But Easywriter, surely you see the link between celibacy and paedophilia?" What are you talking about Mumblechum??? Celibacy makes you a paedophile? Honestly