In not wanting The Pope to visit uk at the taxpayers expense?

[Alouiseg]

Apparently The visit wil cost 12m pounds. That's 12 million pounds to be pinched from other budgets. For a man who has been responsible for covering up crimes against children.

My MP will receive an email today and I will make my abhorrence very clear.

" What nonsense. Paying £12m plus security costs so that a religious leader can visit is a ridiculous waste of money. He's not a proper head of state, he's a religious leader. The invitation should be withdrawn for financial reasons alone. Put the money back into the pot for something meaningful like education or health. if you want to see your religious leader, buy a ticket to Rome. "

I completely agree the money would be better spent on education/health etc. All I'm saying is that with a wine cellar worth £864,000 and god knows how much the government spend on town cars/flights to take minor civil servants to meetings instead of letting them use public transport like the rest of us proles, that this £12m is not the only thing the government is pissing away money on.

So it seems to me that most of the reason people are so annoyed about the pope coming to visit isn't purely financial. Which is fair enough, people are certainly entitled to their views and god knows the Catholic church has done plenty to put people's backs up. But dressing up anti-Catholic sentiment under the guise of economic concerns is a bit disingenuous.

this episode, not long ago history, but in 1994 after Mandela was released, shrtly before the election, is uncomfortable to recall: Mandela authorised ANC security to fire on IFP demonstrators in the street

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_House_massacre

(imagine Cameron authorising tory security to shoot labour demonstrators)

but all-in-all I'd be cheering Mandela.

"Take the train and buses. Then maybe they will improve public transport if they were reliant on them."

lol - I'd actually love to see that!! And swilling down £10 boxes of Asda merlot instead of vintage wines - want to represent the people? Then trying living like the rest of us have to!!

stubborn - you don't have to imagine, you can just go back to Maggie Thatcher and the miner's strike. Only she authorised them to use brute force, not guns.

I was living in S Yorks at the time and it was martial law - the police could prevent anyone they liked from travelling across county boundaries (one man we know was stopped from going into Nottinghamshire to his own father's funeral - he wasn't a miner as it happened but London cops on overtime who have been given the nod that they can do what the hell they like didn't care).

You had the ridiculous situation where people were having to call out the local traffic cops to protect them from the Met in their own homes!

"So it seems to me that most of the reason people are so annoyed about the pope coming to visit isn't purely financial."

I didn't give a stuff about the Pope's visit before I discovered it would cost us well in excess of £12m.

"dressing up anti-Catholic sentiment under the guise of economic concerns is a bit disingenuous"

I have no anti catholic sentiment whatsoever.
Yes, I find the whole child abuse scandal abhorrent but I am perfectly able to separate that from the religion whilst holding the church authorities to blame. It is the people committing the crimes and those covering it up, not the religion, who are the problem.

Its all very well mentioning other things money is wasted on but this is one single high profile thing which happens to come with it's own personal can of worms attached.

soupdragon I agree with you - and it's the chief person covering up the crimes who I'll be booing when he comes to the UK in Sept.

Is there a current petition? the one on ban-the-pope is closed.

Is there a current petition? the one on ban-the-pope is closed.

just one will do

It's fashionable to like Nelson Mandela, infact I think there's a law somewhere that says you have to love him.....God knows why.

Are you aware of his "past".....Hmmm, I wonder....

one of his wives (he's had a few) also has a lovely past..

leave the pope alone, the catholic church help millions of vulnerable people all over the world...

My blood boils. We can cancel manufacturing contracts and defence contracts but we can't cancel the Pope's visit?

But what has really upset me on reading this thread is learning that people like my grandma who have regularly attended church their whole lives (until housebound in the last 4 years during which she has received 2, yes 2, visits from her parish priest...and notwithstanding the Church's magnanimous exclusion of the elderely from the obligation to attend mass regularly, she is still desperately upset that she can't go) and who have barely two pence to rub together are being asked (and believe me, she'll be asked too) to contribute to the visit by the RC Church...WTF?? They are LOADED.

There is, in my opinion as a lapsed Catholic, no depths to which the church as an organisation will not sink. In my experience, the people in the benches at church on a Sunday are better human beings than those who run the show and on whose words they hang...without exception.

I'm so-so about whether the pope comes over or not, prob cos I tend to feel stronger about war criminals but thanks to the 'special relationship' between US and UK it looks like we have to roll the red carpet out for them and allow rendition flights to refuel at UK airports.

Of course, it's great to have the right to protest and it's really important to exercise that right whenever something really pisses you off!! Just be glad you don't have to live in my neck of the woods

oh do bog off, daft punk.

I don't care if he's Catholic or if he's the Pope, i think it's outrageous that anyone making a visit to the UK would cost 12 million, particularly when there's a credit crunch.

DuelingFanjo IS the Pope a Catholic?

Prob wont end up costing 12 million, his visit may even put us in credit...lots of tourists...pope t.shirts/mugs etc....

do bears shit in the woods?

LittleMissSnowShine-

Telling people that condoms CAUSE AIDS is a LIE. That's inexcusable in areas of the world where people have very little education, and frankly disgusting for someone in authority to get away with. Who knows how many people that has killed?

Acuse me of religious intolerance if you want, i don't see how spreading misinformation and hypocrisy is defendable under a religious banner (ANY religious banner) when it wouldn't be otherwise.

Why are my beliefs that everyone should have a right to life and a right not to be persecuted less valid?

I'm sure growing up in Belfast you'll understand my concerns living in Glasgow of the Pope's visit descending into violence. Who knows the added cost of policing that'll be involved. i think the whole thing is a bad idea from start to finish.

Basically i don't want my city getting wrecked and violence on the streets over the head of a visit from someone i think is deplorable on a world scale, and then have to pay for the priviledge as well. It doesn't make sense on any level.

Does Nancy have a red dress?

Try the exercise of substituting "Muslim" for "Catholic" everywhere the word is used in this thread.

I wonder how long it would remain active if this was the case, given the level of hatred and bigotry directed at the religious group in question.

I think he should do a teleconference with whoever it is he wants to see

hesteria - you know, you're probably right. Or even try substituting 'Catholic' for 'Jew' :-/

JennyPiccolo All I'm saying is the Ctaholic church preaches that abstinence is infinitely preferable to contraception in terms of preventing disease, pregnancy and being less sinful. I'm not commenting on whether I agree or not because that's a whole other can or worms!!

And I'm not saying you personally are an intolerant person and I more than sympathise with how annoying any kind of parade that disrupts traffic and costs a fortune can be for a city. I think I've built up a bit of an immunity to it over the years tho I wouldn't even like to estimate how much Belfast spends on cleaning up after all our euphemistically named 'street parties' (ie. state sanctioned drinking binge/riot fests!) every year...

"Try the exercise of substituting "Muslim" for "Catholic" everywhere the word is used in this thread. "

If the powers that be in Islam (I'm sorry, i don't know he proper words) had consistently covered up and colluded with widespread sexual abuse of children i would happily post similarly about them.

Why won't a single Catholic on this thread answer the point I have made repeatedly. Why are you all not up in arms and incansescent with rage at the hierarchy of your own Church? Why are you not demanding answers, and refusing to pay any more of your hard earned money into the Church until it puts its house in order? Why are you still repared to show alliegance to the Pope, who, it has been proved, jknew about the abuse scandal and perpetuated the cover up?