to consider this dog is in fact dangerous?

[WinkyWinkola]

My 3 yo dd put out her hand to a dog in passing waiting outside the supermarket today and it just bit her. No provocation other than a little girl putting out her hand. No blood but her hand has swollen up.

She didn't even touch it. I don't let her touch strange dogs but she put out her hand too quickly for me to stop her.

Apparently, according to the owner, it's not a dangerous dog and my dd should have been better controlled.

I suspect this dog might be a biter because the owner wasn't at all surprised or sympathetic to my howling daughter.

Wouldn't you, as a responsible dog owner, muzzle your dog if you're going to leave it outside a supermarket where lots of little kids are walking past? You're not even there to supervise the animal.

I can see both opinions.
No, your DD should not have approached the dog but if the dog is liable to nip, it shouldn't be tied up in a public place.

I wouldn't call the dog dangerous though. My dog is liable to have a good chew on people but he is playing and does not break the skin HOWEVER I don't leave him tied anywhere in public for this very reason. In his case, he doesn't need muzzling, he needs training.
If I had to leave him in that situation though, yes
I would muzzle him.

If it was a dangerous dog your daughter wouldn't have a hand left.

My dog still 'mouths' but as he is not a puppy, it bloody hurts. He is not dangerous though. And I see no need to muzzle him. I do watch him very carefully where children are about though, just in case. If I saw you daughters hand approaching him I would pull him away and then bollock you for not watching her properly. Sorry.

She walked past the dog. And put out her hand.

I'm sorry if a dog is liable to snap at that zero provocation then it's a problem dog.

So you think a dog has to break the skin and draw blood before it's a problem?

I think if you've got a snappy dog and it's going to be in a busy area with lots of people about and unattended then you should at the very least muzzle.

i had a similar situation outside a library a few years back. dog was tied up in the doorway, snarled at my dds who just walked through the door (not allowed to touch dogs without asking owner). owner ran out and shouted at my children for walking too close! dog was IN THE DOORWAY! no, YANBU in this case, like SOME parents who cant see bad behaviour in children, SOME dog owners are equally blind. hope your dd is ok.
i dont really know what i think about muzzles though, definately on a proven biter but i do think dogs should be supervised.

I think it's very irresponsible to leave a dog tied up unattended in a public place. Dogs on leads are stressed. Dogs in crowded places are stressed. Dogs without their owners are stressed. It's asking for trouble.

I often see dogs like this and feel sorry for them - they look so unhappy and 'worried' for want of a better word.

So, no not a 'dangerous dog' per se, but yes to a potentially risky situation.

Why weren't you between your daughter and the dog?
The dog was presumably tied up or attached to something so that it didn't roam around, you should have spotted the danger and walked round it.
I'd happily have dogs muzzled when out by law, but until it's a rule, you have to be sensible and teach your child not to pat, touch or get close to a dog she doesn't know without the owner giving clear permission that it's OK.
At 3 she's too little to remember, so it's your job to keep her safe.

The dog tied up in a doorway has a very stupid and selfish owner.

a child putting its hand out towards a dog is provocation.

the dog owner was irresponsible to leave the dog unsupervised outside his own home. however this doesn't sound like a dangerous dog.

you say no blood, was the skin broken? did the dog nip her rather than bite her? dogs use nipping to warn each other not to continue whatever it is they are doing. the dog didn't like what your dd did (a hand shooting out towards a dog can be threatening from a dog's POV)and warned her to stop. if he was a dangerous dog i imagine he wouldn't have warned her, he would have launched at her.

you should use this as a lesson to teach your dd how to treat dogs properly.

I had my ds on one side of the trolley, my dd on the other and my baby in the trolley.

We were walking past a dog tied up outside the supermarket door. My dd put out her hand. She's small. The dog reached up and bit her hand.

if the dog bites, it needs a muzzle.

Your poor daughter. I certainly wouldn't leave my dog unattended in the presence of other people, because he is not immune from snapping. You were in the right. The other owner was in the wrong.

I don't think that the dog needs to be thought of as a 'problem' dog, just nervous and being put by his owner in a situation that was wrong for him. All dogs are potentially dangerous, just like all cars are, and as owners we need to keep them in the circumstances dictated by the particular risk they pose.

I didn't take it as the dog was alone? She said the owner was there and didn't react. It is unreasonable to tie dogs up and leave them. I hate it when I see dogs tied to railings. They always look so sad.

It's likely the dog was warning your dd not to go any closer.

Dog was alone. I made sure dd was ok and then went back into supermarket to get the owner.

Owner appeared and I told her the dog had bitten my dd. No blood but a swollen hand and very frightened child.

I asked her if she thought the dog should wear a muzzle if it was going to be alone and might bite small children? Lots of small children walking past that dog. What if one of them just waves in the wrong direction near the dog and the dog takes that the wrong way?

She just walked off.

But dog owners do leave their animals tied up to wait for them, whining and shivering and neurotic that the centre of their universe has disappeared.
That's why you don't go near them, in case they snap when they are already under stress.
I'm sorry your daughter was hurt, but I dislike dogs and give unaccompanied ones a wide berth.
Even accompanied ones, I'd never touch without the owner's encouragement. And sometimes not even then if I'm not comfortable.

Okay in that case you were both BU. The owner should not have put the dog in a position where it felt uncomfortable and you should have watched your daughter more closely if you knew you were approaching a dog which was unattended.

The dog is still not dangerous though. Probably just nervous/stressed. The owner is dangerous and doesn't deserve to keep pets, but the dog just needs some one responsible to care properly for it.

i dont touch any dogs, unless i know them reall well and they know me. even if i was at a friend's and they had a dog that i wasn't known to i would ignore it until i was happy that it was comfortable with me.

i think supermarkets should NOT allow dogs to be tied up in the doorway - tie them to a post in a corner of a car park if need be, but never in a busy crowded doorway, where all sorts of distractions may cause a dog to react in a way which is out of the ordinary

YANBU, OP - what did the supermarket staff say?

The owner was irresponsible to leave the dog unattended in a public place.

However, it does not sound like a dangerous dog. Merely a stressed and frightened one who felt threatened when your dd reached out to it. The dog was warning her not to do that in the only way it knows. If it was truly a dangerous dog it would have broken the skin, drawn blood, and maybe even refused to let go of her hand.

On the facts given alone it doesn't sound like a dangerous dog, IMHO.

booyhoo I love dogs and I am not in the slightest bit afraid of them, but I won't approach a tied up dog and I watch my children very closely when there are nearby.

She didn't touch the dog.

The dog was right by the doorway. We couldn't not walk past it. I didn't even see it until the last second.

But you're right - I will never ever let my dcs go near a dog again whenever I can help it whatever the owners say about their 'good' nature.

It's just not worth the risk particularly since I don't imagine many dog owners will actually step up to the plate and say, "My dog shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry."

'But you're right - I will never ever let my dcs go near a dog again whenever I can help it whatever the owners say about their 'good' nature.' - well now you are just being silly

cue dcs with phobia of dogs.

me too shiny, i have no fear of dogs at all (probably should as was also bitten as a child by a rottie, we had one so i thought they were all nice) but i need to know that a dog is relaxed and comfortable before i offer it something as important as my hand

Winky, tethersend and I are planning a Korean restaurant franchise to solve all these little problems.
You could come and she if your children prefer their doggies stir-fried with extra chips.
You are right in thinking that it is somewhat unlikely that a dog owner will say
"My dog shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry."

Isn't a phobia an irrational fear of something?
I'd say Winky's little girl has every reason to fear dogs in a way that she might never fear snakes for example.
She got grabbed and frightened, so she's going to be wary and worried around dogs.
Sounds rational to me.

they may try but get met with abuse.

Silly? You think.

Well, I've converted to my dh's pov who was bitten as a child by a lab who according to his aunt, "wouldn't hurt a fly."

I pooh poohed this but perhaps unless you know the dog and the owner, then it's just not safe.

I mean, the owner of the dog who snapped today didn't actually care that her dog bites. I bet there are lots more who couldn't care less either.