to consider this dog is in fact dangerous?

[WinkyWinkola]

My 3 yo dd put out her hand to a dog in passing waiting outside the supermarket today and it just bit her. No provocation other than a little girl putting out her hand. No blood but her hand has swollen up.

She didn't even touch it. I don't let her touch strange dogs but she put out her hand too quickly for me to stop her.

Apparently, according to the owner, it's not a dangerous dog and my dd should have been better controlled.

I suspect this dog might be a biter because the owner wasn't at all surprised or sympathetic to my howling daughter.

Wouldn't you, as a responsible dog owner, muzzle your dog if you're going to leave it outside a supermarket where lots of little kids are walking past? You're not even there to supervise the animal.

Not a big dog. Not a small dog. I'm not an expert on dogs!

But it came up to my knee and I'm 6ft tall.

It bit dd's hand. I don't care whether her hand is in bits or not, a snap or a nip whatever. Dd is 3! It bit her and that owner should not have left that dog.

There were so many kids haring about that supermarket this evening and not all of them closely supervised.

Nobody should have to worry about some dog biting them because they move towards it and put their hands out.

I really like dogs. Dd doesn't anymore. She used to campaign for a dog but in the car on the way home she said, "I only want a fish now, Mummy,"

Never mind. She's ok. I've learned a big lesson and thanks to MillyR's post, I know now how to deal with dogs properly. But it can be tricky to give a wide berth esp. outside supermarkets.

"I still don't think there's room in this world for a dog who thinks a hand being put out to it is a threat and snaps or bites or whatever. Far too risky. A snap or a nip this time. And next time? "

the fault is with the dog owner, not the dog. the dog is with the wrong owner. this doesn't mean the dog is a 'dangerous dog'.

Hope your DD is ok

YANBU. ItsGrimUpNorth has it spot on. Of course children should be raised to approach animals with care and caution but a 3 year old at a supermarket? I really think that in that situation the onus is on the owner to ensure their pet is not a hazard.

I think well trained dogs are wonderful company but they're also few and far between. I exercise out on a common and I'm fed up of peoples beloved pooches running up to me, making me have to take all the precautions we've been warned to take in this thread as it's a dog I don't know. I basically have to "hope" it's not a threat.

I also have DD in her buggy so I have to be ready to fight back if the mutt gets nasty. The worse I've had so far is filthy slobber all over me (made me retch, it stank!) and surprise surprise the owner didn't apologise!

Nearly any dog with the wrong owner is a dangerous dog, booyhoo.

I find it very odd that people think it's ok to have animals around that might bite someone if they put their hand out.

And if you put your hand out it's your or the parents fault.

Bizarre.

I think it's dangerous to have animals as big as dogs about that might bite you if you wave your hand around.

that is true tethersend, i just dont think it warrants the dog being PTS (which is usually the fate of dangerous dogs) far better that the dog was with someone who could look after it properly.

Yes, I should have posted in chat but I was so cross that I just picked the first thing that came up in active convos.

However, it's ok to disagree with other posters on aibu if the facts highlight inaccuracies in responses?

I don't believe that dog should have been where it was. We had no choice to walk past it. My dd casually put out her hand - not touching the animal - as we walked past and got bitten.

I'm not convinced by the being unreasonable camp who say the dog was ok to be there. Sorry but I'm not.

i dont think the dog should have been there.

a dog tied up, without it's owner, surrounded by crowds of people and excited children is a recipe for disaster.

I understand your point, booyhoo, but being PTS is not a punishment in the same way that capital punishment is meted out to humans- rather it is for safety reasons.

I think sometimes the term dangerous dog gets misinterpreted as evil dog, and people feel that they have to rush to the defence of the animal which- let's be honest- has no moral compass.

I think it's just tough for the dog if their owner is a wanker irresponsible.

Can't say, "Oh the dog bit you but it's the owner's fault for being a loser so we'll not bother dealing with the dog."

The dog is damaged by the owner and that is that. And such owners should be banned from dog ownership.

Or be bitten by someone else's dog for blinking near it. You're damn right they'd muzzle their dog next time.

totally agree tethersend, being PTS is a safety precaution for all involved, the dog included. but i do think with the right owner this dog could become a 'safe' dog (not that any dog is totally safe).

A good post MillyR, much of it common sense advice.
However, a rule that all dogs should be muzzled in public would be a useful addition to all the advice on not touching, making eye contact, putting something between you and a dog, curling up into a ball.
Then the most you'd face is slobber, scratching and being knocked over.

Do you reckon the Korean restaurant would take off then, Goblin?

my children have been bitten far worse by other children than by any dogs.

"Nobody should have to worry about some dog biting them because they move towards it and put their hands out."

You should not approach a strange dog with your hand out! Unless you are confident that the dog won't bite (you are confident in reading dog body language, or the owner has indicated that the dog is friendly), don't approach the dog.

I'm not saying it's ok for dogs to snap or bite; it's absolutely not, and no dog that is known to snap or bite should ever be left unattended in a public space. Especially not in the doorway of a supermarket! But to ensure the safety of your DCs, keep them away from dogs. I grew up with dogs and am confident in interpreting canine body language, but when DD was little (ie at dog face level), I was beyond paranoid about drilling her never to approach a dog. You can do that without making her dog-phobic, I think, but while making her understand that all animals behave in unpredictable ways; we have to learn how to interact with them in a way that gives them space and doesn't threaten them.

"I really think that in that situation the onus is on the owner to ensure their pet is not a hazard."

Absolutely.

Frankly is pisses me off a little when owners blame the victim for being bitten. This child is 3 FGS - she shouldn't have to be in total control of her hand movements in order safely negotiate a trip to the supermarket.

"You should not approach a strange dog with your hand out!"

My dd walked past the dog with her hand out. She did not touch the dog. It had to make an effort to bite her.

And why shouldn't she be able to walk with her hands out whatever? Why not? Why shouldn't she feel safe enough to wave her hands and arms about whatever animal was there? If she can't do that then the animal should not be allowed out.

The dog was there, tied up in the exit. We had no choice but to walk past it. Her previous experience of dogs has been positive. I didn't see the dog until I saw her putting her hand out to it.

LittleSilver, as a dog owner, rescuer and fosterer who sees and successfully works dogs which are alleged to be problematic, I find your remark abhorrent.

I have already responded to the OP in "Pets", but of course being the resident mad dog woman I feel that I must wade in here. I can only repeat what I said earlier, which is:

The dog isn't imho and ime necessarily dangerous. You just can't judge on that one experience, anything could have been a factor. Yes, he could be a dodgy one, equally he could have been startled and threatened by your daughter, been feeling off-colour, could have been overheated or stressed and scared by an earlier passer-by, even (not casting doubt upon you but your OP isn't totally clear as to whether you saw the whole incident), reacting in a friendly manner and caught your DD by accident.

I have 2 large dogs and working with rescue and knowing what I do about the number of thefts I don't usually leave my dogs unattended. However I live in a very small village with a local shop which is laid out so I can see them so I occaisonally tie them up outside for 5 mins. I muzzle one as he was beaten by his previous owner and therefore I feel that you can't be too careful about strangers interacting with him. The other is the larger of the 2 and I know that I can trust him. I can only hope that the owner of the dog in your case has learned from this horrid incident and will in future muzzle the dog or not leave him unattended.

I have the greatest respect for you for teaching DD not to touch strange dogs (I've met adult men who have been stupid enough to approach my muzzled boy... FGS why I don't know!). I can only suggest that of course you continue with that but also perhaps ask someone (perhaps another mum of young DC) who owns a friendly, reliable dog if you can join them on a dog walk one day soon to reassure DD that not all dogs are bad and she need not fear them whilst taking the oppurnity to reinforce the "don't touch or go too near until both Mummy and owner say so" rule.

I hope that your daughter is okay now and that you are reassured that most dog owners are responsible and most dogs are perfectly nice.

"Why shouldn't she feel safe enough to wave her hands and arms about whatever animal was there? "

Winky- the thing is animals are unpredictable. it is unreasonable to believe that you should be able to behave however you like around an animal without it reacting in anyway. animals do not have the same sense of the importance of humans as humans have of themselves. an animal will react in a defensive manner to a perceived threat. walking past a dog with your hand outstretched towards it, is, to a dog, a threat.

i completely agree with you that the dog shouldn't have been there but i think the idea that you can behave how you like around animals, and expect them not to react is a dangerous attitude to have and not one i would be teaching my children. far better to teach your dcs that sometimes animals are somewhere they shouldn't be and this is what we do when they are somewhere we need to go.