to consider this dog is in fact dangerous?

[WinkyWinkola]

My 3 yo dd put out her hand to a dog in passing waiting outside the supermarket today and it just bit her. No provocation other than a little girl putting out her hand. No blood but her hand has swollen up.

She didn't even touch it. I don't let her touch strange dogs but she put out her hand too quickly for me to stop her.

Apparently, according to the owner, it's not a dangerous dog and my dd should have been better controlled.

I suspect this dog might be a biter because the owner wasn't at all surprised or sympathetic to my howling daughter.

Wouldn't you, as a responsible dog owner, muzzle your dog if you're going to leave it outside a supermarket where lots of little kids are walking past? You're not even there to supervise the animal.

as with all things of course there are irresp9onsible dog owners, and some dogs are dangerous, that is why all children should be taught never to touch a dog unless they have spoken to the owner. Sorry your dd got hurt.

Her dog didn't bite though. It snapped. If it had bitten you would be sat in A and E right now, getting your daughters hand stitched back together.

You have had shock but you were both unreasonable. You and the dog owner. You should have watched your daughter more closely when you were approaching the dog, she should not have left her dog unattended if it had nervous tendencies.

There is no need to overreact about future dogs you may encounter. The vast, vast majority of dogs and dog owners are friendly, well trained and responsible.

goblinchild the fear doesn't need to exist. OP could make sure her DD has contact with dogs she knows and has built up a relationship with. it would take time of course but i definitely would prefer that than for my child to be scared of dogs because of one irresponsible dog owner. to actively keep your dcs away from all dogs will encourage an irrational fear.

"you should use this as a lesson to teach your dd how to treat dogs properly"

Christ on a bike. A little child slightly moved her hand towards a dog she HAD to walk past and got bitten - and you have the stupidity to tell the parent she is being unreasonable and wave your finger at her?

In the circs I think the OP was unbelievably restrained. I would have reacted very, very differently. I have one of those dog sonic alarm things because my dd1 was bitten when she was 4 and of course it was " a friendly dog" - friendly my arse. Now I just press the button and they piss off.

I recommend them.

www.dogdazer.co.uk

emm, were did i say OP was being unreasonable? i said she could use it to teach her dd how to treat dogs and she can. she can point out that dogs sitting alone and tied up can be nervous and might snap, she can show her dd how to move away from dogs she doesn't know.

and i am not stupid, i made a perfectly reasonable suggestion which you have misread and misinterpreted to suit your own ends. no, it is not me who is being stupid.

Learn your lesson Winky.

You must never allow your DD out of the house without having her hands tied to her sides.

Yanbu, btw.

YANBU being angry about it. You have a right to walk in a public place without fear of being bitten (or nipped, whichever) by an animal. I dont think this dog is particularly dangerous, since it could have done serious damage, and as you say the skin wasnt broken, but I do think the dog owner was bloody irresponsible leaving the dog there in a situation where it clearly wasnt comfortable. When I used to ride my horse down the street, we were constantly mobbed by kids, but since I knew 100% that he was safe, I was fine about it. If I was riding someone elses horse I would shout at them not to come within 20ft just in case. If you know there is even a small chance that your animal could injure someone if frightened or alarmed, then dont tie it in a busy doorway FFS!

a point I want to make, amd I am in total agreement that YANBU, the dog should not have been there, the owner should have apologised, the situation should never have happned, what people are trying to do is advise you how to teach your children to bve safe around dogs.
My children are often hurt, by the pavement, a swing, the door, the stairs, their bikes, and I know of children who have broken bones falling off swings, they are not then told never to go near a swing again as it is dangerpous, they are shown how to be careful of things.
Yes some dogs are dangerous but most aren't.

I think that a dog that sees a waving hand as provocation shouldn't be left tied up in a doorway. Not a dangerous dog; an irresponsible owner.

Hope dd is OK Winky.

Dogs that see hand movements as reason to snap have no call to be out and about in public.

I'm sorry if they're messed up/have been hurt in the past etc but if a dog snaps at someone who is merely putting a hand out, then that dog cannot be in public. It's a risk.

Frankly, I'd've had a right go at the owner.

I just don't get whether it matters if the dog "snapped" or "bit". The dog bit the child - whether the child's hand is in tatters or not is irrelevant as to the suitability of the animal in public spaces.

How bad does it have to be before people act responsibly?

"So you think a dog has to break the skin and draw blood before it's a problem? "

i think it has to do that before it is dangerous, yes.

Did your DD put her hand out to the dog in a deliberate movement or just happen to wave it in the dog's direction? There is a world of difference between a child slightly moving her hand towards a dog as one poster put it or the perceived threat of someone reaching towards the dog. In the first case the dog is unpredictable and potentially a problem, in the second it is behaving like a dog and giving a warning nip as it would to another dog/puppy. Neither is great for the 'victim' but they are different scenarios.

In areas of the US where children are taught these rules in Kindergarten through colouring books etc, dog bite incidents involving children are reduced by 80%. A 5 year old is, after all, far more intelligent and able to learn than any dog.

'Advice for PARENTS to TEACH YOUR CHILD Concerning Dogs

NEVER disturb any dog who is sleeping, eating, or caring for puppies.

NEVER pet a dog, even your own, without letting him see and sniff you first.

Children must always ASK PERMISSION from the owner and their parents BEFORE petting any dog. I never allowed my children near strange dogs much less pet them.

If the owner cannot control the dog and have it SIT nicely for the child to pet, WALK AWAY.

NEVER approach a dog who is confined behind a fence, within a car, or on a chain.

NEVER TEASE any dog by poking at them through fences or car windows or reaching your arm through to pet them.

NEVER approach a strange dog you don't know or a dog who is not with his owner.

NEVER RUN away from a dog that is chasing you. STOP, STAND STILL, REMAIN CALM, ARMS AT YOUR SIDES, be quiet and DO NOT SCREAM. Walk away SLOWLY FACING THE DOG BUT NOT STARING AT its eyes.

If a dog attacks, "feed" him your jacket, a school book, a bicycle, or anything else that you can get between you and the dog.

If you are attacked, STOP, CURL UP IN A BALL LIKE A TURTLE, COVER YOUR HEAD WITH YOUR ARMS AND HANDS.

Do not chase after dogs.

Do not scream and be loud around dog.

Children should not stare into the eyes of a dog.

If a dog starts to circle you - turn with it, don't let it get behind you.

If the dog shows aggressive behavior (I.e. barking or growling) put something between you and the dog - like a a chair.

Just because a dog wags its tail does not mean its friendly.

Always ask the owner of a dog if it is OK to pet their dog.

If you are in the area of a stray dog - leave that area.

If a dog approaches you remain calm and motionless. Keep your hands at your side. Speak with a soothing voice.

If a dog is injured do not touch or try and help it. Go get an adult'

Great post MillyR. Will print that off.

I still don't think there's room in this world for a dog who thinks a hand being put out to it is a threat and snaps or bites or whatever. Far too risky. A snap or a nip this time. And next time?

Why is the OP posting in AIBU? She clearly doesn't want to be told she was even in the slightest bit unreasonable, she wants everyone else to wholeheartedly agree with her that both dog and owner were 100% in the wrong.

I'm not saying the owner wasn't partly or even significantly unreasonable, but it does get my goat when people use this board to vent and get shirty when some people disagree with them. Post elsewhere if you want to do that!

I think YABVU, but mainly in that you have posted an AIBU wanting only confirmation of something that you have already made your mind up about. You're not asking a question, you're just seeking affirmation in your anger.

I love dogs, but would never let DD go anywhere near them at that age, because they behave in a way that is unpredictable and intimidating to dogs. I'd already drilled her in the dos and don'ts (great post MillyR), but would still never have trusted any dog around her. Still don't, in fact; mainly because she crowds them in her enthusiasm. She crowds our dog all the time too, despite being constantly told, and if the dog nipped (not bit) her, then I would think that was fair enough.

As a previous poster pointed out, there is a big difference between your DD walking past the dog, moving her hand and the dog snapping, and your DD approaching the dog, sticking her hand into its personal space, and the dog responding with a warning nip. If she'd been 'bitten', the skin would have been broken.

The circumstances don't sound great at all (stressed dog in a doorway), and I can understand why you were upset. The owner should absolutely have apologised (I certainly would have), but maybe you were unwilling to acknowledge your part in the situation (your DD should not have been in close proximity to a strange dog and able to reach out to it), and that's why she reacted defensively.

Goblin, I still have the plans...

Cross posted squirrel42 - it gets my goat too!

Oh, and YADNBU.

I disagree OP. If a dog bites, it doesn't need a muzzle, it needs putting down.

Goats seem to have been got at all round peeringintothevoid!