AIBU to think the Goverment is

[Blackness]

Bang out of order to be planning on changing the law on redundancy packages and striking rules, just so they can force through their new cuts.

Labour tried to do it the right way, by getting the Unions to agree, and they didn't. So the Conservaties think Fuck you we will simply do it the underhanded way.

Just like reducing the tax credits to £23k a year despite telling us 40k.

regret my Tory vote now....

Democracy...... What Democracy Mr Cameroon. Goverment loses in court, so you change the law instead.

You Sir quite frankly Stink!

www.pcs.org.uk/en/campaigns/cscs/

Hope this link works, there are examples at the end under heading "what this means for you"

I'm not that sympathetic to be honest. Sorry.

I could work in the city as a clerical assistant and get paid more than I do as an experienced AHP in the NHS.

Our pension is one of the only decent benefits we get as public sector workers. I didn't enter the NHS till quite late so I won;t get that much anyway. Yes I get job satisfaction but I also have to pay my mortgage.

My team has already been cut (agency staff gone, 50% of the team gone) and we are repeatedly told that if we do not up our productivity we'll be replaced by a private sector provider. I've yet to work out how we could possibly do more than we already do at the moment.

Asswallowedafly says, the public sector does have better rights than the private sector as the private sector can be awful, but surely we should look up not down? It would suit our Trust down to the ground to replace us with private sector as all access to those rights is then gone, someone elses responsibilty.

I have friends who work in finance in the private sector whose redundancy packages are obscene, certainly enough to put their employers getting rid of them.

Unfortunately peoples perception if the public sector gets skewed by reporting the ridiculous salaries of some council leaders etc. Most of us get paid a very average salary, and if we had jobs that required comparable experience education and expertise in the private sector we would earn substantially more. I obviously knew when I embarked on my career that I would never be rich. But I will not accept being screwed over by the government because the banking sector screwed up so royally.

I would agree there - jobs should pay a living wage, pensions should be for everyone in work, that sort of thing.

Something has happened though. When I started working (for a FS company in the sticks) we had a subsidised lush canteen, final salary pension, other free stuff (can't remember what now) and everything was wonderful. there was a feeling that the company cared about teh employees.

Over the years the perks were eroded (though as I say I understand that for most companies closure of FS pensions schemes was a necessity rather than an evil thing). This is the story across the piece I'm sure. Whay did that happen? Globalisation and increased competition? Shareholders getting more greedy? This erosion happened in five years from 1998 - so under a Labour govt. Things are completely different to how they were then. I guess it's a combination of factors.

We need more companies like John Lewis . But even they don't have a FS pension for staff.

sorry - not staff - partners!

OP, if your problem is that the government may legislate its way out of an issue, i don't think you can really say one party does this more than another because it happens all the time.

Swallowed - i think you need to take a look at places like Spain and France, where there is little opportunity for anyone not already entrenched in the cosy system, because companies are so constrained on ever firing anyone that they are reluctant to hire.

unfortunately it is well documented that public sector perks lead to a feeling of entitlement and, frankly, laziness.

And i disagree with your assessment that a lack of private sector perks leads to more reliance on the state. It's unrealistic in this day and age to expect to live on a state pension and anyone who wants a decent life must save now for later.

howannoying thanks for the link

about the new arrangements

"They will be replaced by cash only payments of a month?s pay for each year of service, doubled after 5 years service, again subject to cap of two year pay!"

That still seems very generous TBH. i am also struggling to feel sympathetic. Even though the person who wrote it is so outraged that they had to put a ! on the end.

Statutory is between 0.5 and 1.5 weeks pay per year, capped at about 6 months pay in total. Redundancy pay is designed as a cushion while you find another job, not to support you long term or to see you through to retirement.

The disparity is just too big. Even between this new "terrible" deal and what ordinary people get the disparity is too big.

There must be room to meet in the middle. I do get quite GRRRR when people who have such luxurious entitlements bang on about how hard done by they are. I honestly think that a lot of people in teh public sector have all these fantasies about the rewards of working in the private sector. I have worked in both and have friends who work in both, and from where I'm sitting (and having had long conversations with most of them) the public sector is miles more generous with everything from pay to working practices to terms and conditions to subsidies to pensions and so on. Yes there will always be cases where one is better than the other, but the stats back up the idea that working in the public sector is a better financial move than wokring in teh private sector (for ordinary people ie not the top brass).

There needs to be more parity between the two sectors, the current situation gets people's backs up and then there is anger and then you get a tory govt. See it's no good. We need reasonable terms and benefits etc across the board.

I dont have a pension , didnt get one as a sahm for many years ,(didnt take half of ex-hs during the divorce). Now looking to get back into employment . (had stoped to become full time carer to sn dd4) . Looks like i will be working until i die , fair enough ...its my own fault i suppose i didnt take out a private pension when i had the chance... I dont really understand all the political stuff (being honest here), but it seems to me it doesnt really matter who is in goverment - we are all screwed regardless. Never understood why the goverment bailed out the banks either ... The biggest disapointment is that there is not a party that anyone i know feels 100% confident about now. Labour ...think they overspent a bit. lib-dems...sold themselfs out for nothing ,they dont seam to have much of a say now do they? Conservatives ... well tories are as tories are . Greens...???? gawd knows , would they plant more trees and build wind farms? Dont feel that they could sort the mess out...(not based on fact just suspicion of lentil weavery) Whos left? . ...BNP....eh? computer says No! . . IM convinced there will be another election soon.THEYD ALL BETTER GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER.

If there can be a way that public sector perks can be extended across teh board, I would happily see that as well. What sticks in my throat is the huge disparity.

DH works in the public sector and he gets a mind-boggling array of perks, most of which he doesn't even see as perks until I point them out to him, and many of which he and his colleagues openly abuse.

Funny how the Tories always claim it's Labour that wants to level down. In fact, it's the Tories. Private sector redundancy crap? Great, let's make it just as bad in the public sector.

Statutory redundancy pay is an insult - a week for every year's service once you've been there for two years. Whoop-de-fucking-doo. Funny how the bosses always have more generous terms. We should have a law that the bosses' Ts and Cs are linked to their staff. So can't be more than twice or three times what the average member of staff is entitled to, for instance. Might make them think a bit harder about the impact of their decisions, especially as top bosses get fat pay awards even when the company is doing badly.

The Tory line that 'we are all in this together' has been exposed as a big, fat, lie. It wasn't ordinary workers who caused the fucking crisis. But it's ordinary people who are paying for it.

my dad got made redundant and he had worked there over 20 years, he got redundancy money which is a good job really as he was 50 and it took him a long time to get another job.
It is not that easy for some people to just hop back into work so yes people need enough money to live on surley.
Also being with the same company for so many years shows dedication, so sorry longfingernails but some people do not get help unfortunatly

Another thing , people who do work hard , should be rewarded...all the talk about closing the gap between rich and poor is a bit communist imo.
I dont mean to say that the rich should get stupid bonuses and the poor taxed out of being able to feed themselves .
There always should be a greater incentive for working hard . If you work life should be easier , more rewarding and finacially more secure than if your unemployed. There is something wrong if people are not working yet have a better "lifestyle" than those who do.
Some families i know , both partners work , and often struggle to pay the bills, and some "dole merchants" enjoy holidays to spain and can afford to drive better cars. hows that right?.
High tax on middle incomes is wrong . higher taxes on super-rich would be better imo ....theyre loaded anyway , they wouldnt suffer from having a bit extra to pay.,they`d still be loads for then to buy yaughts with ..

ImSoNotTelling I totally agree. I am a teacher now, but spent some time working in private sector - my company made £18million profits - but had predicted much higher and had to make 10% workforce redundant to protect share value - what crazy world do we live in where this happens? People are expendable because the pressure for increased profits year on year is so high - it isn't sustainable, and it does result in reliance on the state, and in workers getting less of the pie while the rich get richer - the major problem we have is pensions being reliant on the stock market, means when big companies like BP have problems we are all at risk. We need more private and co-operative companies, its a much better business model.

goodnightmoon I know of people who saved for years contributing to a company pension only to see it vanish into thin air - I know lots of people who have no savings at all - I imagine lots of my generation will be forced to work until we die tbh. Is a mess.

The tories in the london mayoral type office thingy voted unanimously against introducing a cap whereby the top people couldn't be paid more than (was it 10x?) the lowest paid people. What a huge shocker

I find it funny when people say that the disparity between the rich and poor is a terrible thing but fight tooth and nail to maintain disparity between ordinary people working in different sectors. I never see people saying "they should increase stat redundnacy pay, they should increase stat mat pay, they should force employers to pay min pen conts" etc etc. There is a more a "you're so mean and selfish, you want to take our benefits away" and never any sign of concern about the people who are not in receipt of all these perks. Exactly the same as they are accusing others of, only in reverse. When the fact that the average salary in the public sector is higher than the private sector comes up, all these so called socialists are swift to dispute the figures, there is never a call for a rise in teh minimum wage.

pah.

I'm somewhat intrigued by this concept that worker's rights are to be held at a level with enablibg business

we've got a small but growing business (we double turnover each eyar so it's a very real asset, we're looking at hiring in 3 - 5 yeras time

We ahve seen nothing in the way of any help at all

This morning it's on the news that the Assembly 9we're in Wales) is redusing business support.

I am all for workers to get decent rights and developing busoiness and entrepreneurship: I don't think they are at all separate (better a loyal workforce than one with a grudge and half an eye on the sits vacant) and I don't think the business help exists at all

Just to reiterate what ISNT said on redundancy:
private sector get one week per year of service
public sector proposal is emonth per year of service. And they have the cheek to feel hard done by!

I'm off to sign that petition. Not.

drloves i completely agree

'Our pension is one of the only decent benefits we get as public sector workers.'

You're damn right lovely...private sector workers who do the equvalent to my position are paid a starting salary more than mine is now and I've been in the service for more than 10yrs!!!...thats why they dont get the same pension/redundancy rights as a public sector worker..do not be fooled front-line civil servants do a vital job that requires specialist experience and training and we are continuously used as a whipping boy by both the public and government alike..

what's more unreasonable are all the tory bashing threads. yawn.

"There is a more a "you're so mean and selfish, you want to take our benefits away" and never any sign of concern about the people who are not in receipt of all these perks. Exactly the same as they are accusing others of, only in reverse. When the fact that the average salary in the public sector is higher than the private sector comes up, all these so called socialists are swift to dispute the figures, there is never a call for a rise in teh minimum wage."

The pension thing is a great example of it .
averedge joe works for 20 years he earns averedge wage . Then gets made redundent so gets £££ based on his averedge wage ...fair enough ,seems reasonable .
Until you compare it to his boss who earns 100 x what joe earned . Then its just a stupid figure thats paid out. Mr Boss doesnt really need the money , because hes loaded anyway , but has a pension that eclipses most of his workforces put together.
Why dont they cap pensions at a high level , and then the money left over could be used to keep people in employment (new jobs created , or keep people in jobs).

Why willie, are people not allowed an opinion?

If you want to start a non Tory basging thread you are of course free.