to worry about financials of MIL moving in with SIL?

[NoseyNooNoo]

This is really is really on behalf of my DH who is a bit concerned.

We live in S.E. MIL lives in Yorkshire, is widowed, lonely and a bit depressed. She is 70, going on 85, and I've often worried what will happen when she can't cope anymore given that family is so far away. SIL lives in Ireland with her husband and chidren aged 15-18 years old. They have a medium sized house in negative equity.

SIL has asked MIL to live with them. This will entail MIL selling her house in Yorkshire, SIL selling her house and them buying a bigger house in Ireland. They expect to be mortgage free because MIL will fund it.

DH and I are quite relieved at this because this solves a lot of future problems / stress with MIL as her health gets worse. However, DH is I suspect a bit peeved that SIL and her husband are getting a good deal financially. We're all around the same age but DH and I will have a huge mortgage whilst SIL and her husband will have a similar sized house but be mortgage free. He thinks something should be put in MIL's will to account for the discrepency but given that MIL hasn't got tonnes of cash spare I can't see how things can be divvied up 50-50.

I think to some extent that he should leave it because at least his mum will be happy but I can see his point that his sister and husband will be getting an easy route to good-sized house without working for it - although looking after MIL in old-age seems like work to me!!

What are these "future disagreements" to which you refer?

Your MIL is an adult, I assume she is not mentally impaired otherwise you would no doubt have mentioned it. Therefore she makes her decision and frankly her children get to like it or lump it. End of story.

There is nothing more vile than adult children mentally calculating what they might get out of their so-far-in-good-health parents' estate.

It is proper for adult children to look out for their elderly parents. I can't believe anyone thinks that they shouldn't.

As people age they become gradually more dependent and vulnerable. Their children should be looking out for them in these matters.

The problem is that sometimes the children are actually looking out for themselves in the shape of their inheritance.

Which is why independent financial advice can be useful.

I'm looking to be in this situation soon with my dad. We are going to ask him to move in with us if he gets any more poorly. He's only 64 but has a long term chronic illness and is struggling on his own.

We don't have space for him though at the minute so the only option would be to build a 2 level extension on the back of our house. I would guess we're looking at 40k+. My dad would have to finance this as we don't have the money.

Obviously after my dad had died we'd be left with a bigger and more valuable house at no cost to us. I was concerned what my brother might think and have asked him.

He's totally fine with it. He says that if I end up looking after my dad for what could be 20 years then I'd deserve it. Plus if I didn't look after him then he'd end up having to go in a nursing home and would end up spending over 40K i'd have thought.

Your SIL looking after MIL would definetly be work. She could become senile, incontinent and bedbound. Never mind the loss of privacy in their home. To be honest this worries me more about having my dad here than me having to cook/clean/do his laundry.

I think your DH is being unreasonable. Has he offered to have his mother live with you instead? Inheriting money is nice if you get some but it isn't an entitlement and in these days of high nursing home fees there is often nothing left. He needs to get his head round the fact he may well not inhereit anything.

If it's proper to expect the kids to care for and finance her if it goes pearshaped, then it's proper for them to advise her to protect her interests now.

"Obviously after my dad had died we'd be left with a bigger and more valuable house at no cost to us. I was concerned what my brother might think and have asked him."

This. Plus the fact that you are adding an extension, not having a new house bought for you and your neg. equity written off, and that you plainly are very aware of how awful it could get and will be there for the long haul. Sadly not everyone is as decent and as fair as you are.

This SIL may be an angel. She may be out for herself. Both happen.

Agree with Confuzled - skss, you've discussed it, and £40k is nothing compared to the cost of a care home. That is exactly what SIL and MIL should be doing.

Sorry, have only just read your further messages. It wasn't made clear in the OP that the concern is that SIL may decide she can't cope and the worry is how would care home fees be paid, nor did I know it was in Ireland with no NHS.

tHOUGH i'm guessing if worse came to the worse she would be entitled to come back to this country for NHS treatment/nursing home? I know the NHS ones probably aren't the best but she wouldn't be left in a gutter. She would be warm, fed and cared for.

I suppose your MIL needs to weigh up the pros and cons. She may well never need a nursing home and it will all work out fine. Is it a risk/gamble she's prepared to take.

If she didn't go then how much money does she have and how long would that fund a private nursinghome for if needed? My gran died last year and I believe we were paying £600 a month for her care in a private home. It soon eats into your savings.

I know it's not meant to but the OP message does suggest the issue is with inheritance rather than funding care for MIL in the future. It does sound a little grasping however if the DH has spent 5 years caring for his father then I don't blame him for feeling peeved that his sister will gain so much financially.

However, if the issue is around what will happen to MIL once all her money is in SIL's house then OP is NBU to be concerned. I know nothing about the system in Ireland but from some of the posts it sounds like it's even more complicated than here re: health and social care.

Much as the SIL may want to care for MIL till the end, she has no idea how difficult it may get and whether she will be able to cope. If she can't it doesn't make her a bad person, it's not something I could do and I'm a HCP with mainly older clients! So it makes complete sense for the family to have an open discussion re: what would happen should residential care be needed in the future. Who will pay? It's something most older people need to start considering thses days unfortunately, and is even more important in a situation like this where the MIL may end up with no real equity of her own.

One of the things that needs to be planned for is not just that the SIL might not be able to cope, but that MIL might eventually need care that she can't provide, even with the best will in the world.

stripey my grandparents moved in with my aunt in circumstances very similar to yours (double storey extension on her house, (mostly?) funded by them) but within a few years my grandfather needed full time care 24-hour care in a specialist home for geriatrics with dementia. It was extremely expensive (but excellent, tg). My aunt and uncle (with as much help as possible from my parents, but realistically a&u carried a lot of it) just couldn't provide that kind of care.

The cost of the extension had not drained them of all their retirement money and so my grandfather's care could be paid for. You have to consider that old people can live a long time and need expensive care and how the costs of that care are going to be met.

"i'm guessing if worse came to the worse she would be entitled to come back to this country for NHS treatment/nursing home?"

Would she? I don't know, but I certainly would want to be bloody sure of it before I was happy about her going ahead.

Also, what if she is too frail or disturbed to be moved? You can't just ship elderly, infirm people around the world to find the location offering the most generous tax-payer funded care. If she's moving to Ireland, I think you need to assume that that is where she will be staying.

If the SIL's new house is one with an attached but self-contained annex, then that could be rented out if the MIL goes into care. That way, MIL's property is contributing to the cost of her care. Probably not enough though.....Care where we live is around £500 or £600 a week I think.

Another thing to consider is if your SILs marriage breaks up, will her DH have a claim on the house funded by your MIL. He is probably not going to worry too much about her care costs in those circumstances.

Also, there's something pretty upsetting about the idea of this poor woman being shipped abroad to "not ideal" care courtesy of the British taxpayer, while her daughter and family live in a nice big house paid for with her money. With their debts written off, also with her money.

Grim.

Seriously the thought of a child being prepared to put an elderly parent's money into their pit of negative equity makes me want to scream.

How could you do that to your own mother?

I would definitely be concerned about Skidoodly's scenario whereby SIL gets the bigger home but MIL still gets moved into a care home and who will fund that?

Will SIL fund the care costs out of the house or will SIL keep the house and MIL have to move into a state-funded care home and all that that entails.

Agree that MIL should retain equity in SIL's bigger house.

Retaining equity in SIL's bigger house isn't enough though.

She should obviously have her name on the deeds of the house she purchases (effectively entirely out of her own money while also paying off their debts) but she also needs to keep some money in shorter term investments.

Having equity in a family home is bog all use if you need to release equity to pay for your care.

All of her money must not be tied up in that house.

But the OP didnt express ANY concern whatsover for MIL future security, her concern was for the "discrepancy", and a "50:50 split", I stick by my YABU!

Maybe she didn't, but I still think it was worth alerting her to the risks.

Somebody has to be looking out for that poor MIL's wellbeing and it doesn't sound like her children are doing anything but divvying up the spoils before she's even finished spending her own money.

YABU. You say your DH and you are relieved that MIL is going to live with SIL as that will solve any future problems. Your MIL is happy. So tell your DH to stop complaining and let your MIL do what she wants.

skid I dont disagree with that, just that the OP changed her tune pretty quick with the overwhelming initial YABU's, I'm sorry her OP was not about concern for MIL, just concern for her money, and horrid IMO!!

No, agreed, the OP was not about concern for the MIL.

But I'm reserving my YANBU for the title of the post - she is NBU to worry about the financial of MIL moving in with SIL, she's just worrying for the wrong reasons.

Splitting hairs? Moi?

Surely it cannot be a good thing for MIL to go from having a house and assets of her own to having none and to rely on the goodwill of the SIL. For one thing, it will severely limit MIL's options if relations break down with SIL or SIL cannot cope.

Hence, it is in MIL's interest to retain interest in the property, name on title deeds etc.

If I was OP, I would be far happier knowing MIL has protected herself financially, even if I never received a penny out of the process. If anything, not giving everything away would remind SIL that she still needs to be in MIL's good books.

I sound cynical. Sad but true.

Agree blueshoes, the only concern here should be protecting MIL's interests.

This is her money, the money that should be used to look after her as she gets old and frail, and whatever arrangements are made need to be made with that in the forefront of people's minds.

It's not just about protecting her from potentially greedy children, it's also about making sure she can access the money she needs when she needs it. People in retirement have very different financial needs from young families and so it is imperative that her interests are not subsumed by those of her daughter's family, even presuming they do have her best interests at heart and are not just thrilled at the idea of getting their inheritance "early".

My MIL is just like this... she looks after her MIL a fair bit, cooking etc but her MIL lives in her own home. She thinks she and FIL should get the bulk of her MIL's money as her SIL 'does nothing'....

yet her own Mother is looked after full time by her sister and she thinks 'there should be an even split as we are both her daughters'

"i'm guessing if worse came to the worse she would be entitled to come back to this country for NHS treatment/nursing home?"

This is a common misconception, entitlement to NHS treatment is based on residence in the UK. this explains it.

You really need to ensure MIL's finances AND potential future health/care provisions are taken care of in however the finances are sorted out.

YABU thinking about "50:50" etc, it is MIL's money to spend/leave as she chooses.

YANBU in thinking that the finances need sorting out - BUT FOR MIL'S BENEFIT no one elses.