To think that school photographs are abominably expensive?

[Birdly]

Just got the DC's class photos. Lovely pix of them with their friends and teachers in a cheap as chips cardboard frame - £10.50 each! EACH!

So that's 2 DC and, ideally, I'd like to give a copy of each to my mum. That's £42.

Has the world gone mad?

Snapper99, if you go on "Acronyms" you will have most of the abreviations.

We have three kids. We asked if it was possible to have any kind of discount and only thing offered was not to charge the late booking fee of £2.50 (automatically charged to anybody booking online rather than through the school) - so no business from us!

If they had been a bit more flexible they might have made a sale!

Thanks Gorionine for the link.

Nickoka

Who was your Tog?

Do you mean, because you have three kids you ended up with say 4 poses, eg one of each child, and a family one. Did you want to buy a lot or just one pose?

If the tog was an independant, I feel, if you were buying lots, he could have offered you a discount. However, giving discounts can be like opening a can of worms, because the parent tells her friends, who then start ringing up asking for deals. If your tog offers images on a cd, the first image normaly cost so much and any extras are charged at a steadily decreasing price. So you could get all the images relativly cheaply, then print off what you like.

I did have a parent ring me once complaining that, as she had 5 children, she found that buying school pics was too expensive. I said why not just buy the family one, and then it will cost you the same as the parents with one child. She said she liked, and wanted all the singles as well. I didn't know what to say to that.

BTW

Where is "Acronyms", please?

Ignore that last message.

I just spotted it.

Some good ones in there!

I paid £19 in total for:

1 10 x 8 picture
2 7 x 5 pictures
4 6 x 4 pictures
4 bookmarks.

I thought that it was good value.

The picture quality is far better than anything I could have taken and the photographer always gets the best out of the children.

They are based in Rotherham BTW.

Ok parents... want to help us help you?

We have a very short survey here. You really would be help us get a better 'picture ' of how we are doing and how we could improve things for you.

www.schoolphotopro.com/survey/index.php?sid=71523

Thanks for your help.

Not going to do the survey but to me the big problem with school photograph this year was:

-there was only one size, very big and now I have 4 of them I cannot display anywhere.

-because of unique size there was also a unique price so no way to "lighten" the bill by buying smaller version.

Was that from GEP?

YADNBU these school photos are a total rip off tbh

I would buy one and scan it, thats what we did.

They are a total rip off and schools should be doing more to protect parents from handing money over for what is basically complete over priced rubbish.

At our school it was common knowledge the school photographer ( from one of the well known set ups mentioned below) was awful. Parents had repeatedly complained and he was called back for re-takes. Ds's 1st photo was laughable-it was blurred(out of focus),I kid you not I could have taken a better photo on my own Nikon. Said photographer wasn't nice to my friend at her re-take blaming her kids. I was so upset and their teacher so appalled at how bad they still were after take 2 she did some for me at home.

Roll on to this year with dd's 1st photo and it was even worse,even after the 2nd take(he had to come back for several other families).Anyhow I grudgingly decided to buy it as had no record of my dc's 1st year, so sent off my money and nothing arrived.

Looked on the snazzy website to get the photographer's name only to be told as it was over 3 months he wouldn't do anything because I'd sent back photos in the past. This is because on the proof which is tiny with writing over it's hard to see how bad they are until they turn up. I pointed out parents were told by the school and the company that they could return if not good enough so not sure why this is an issue.

Anyhow then decided to contact said snazzy company that I'd payed for goods not turned up and they said sorry mate it's actually a franchise so not up to us to do anything and they haven't and I'm out of pocket and have no record of any of my dc's 1st years at school.

I'm telling you all this as I firmly believe school photography is a license to make money.Any Tom,Dick or Harry could spend £1000 on a half decent digital SLR,buy into a franchise and Bob's Your Uncle!!!!! It's easy money with every single booking,must be raking it in.

Then it's how can we extract maximum cash?Oh I know vastly over priced photos, crappy keyrings,overpriced packs etc.It's just a license to make money and I think schools should be doing more to a) check credentials,fair prices,quality,decent pack,offers etc.They need to get together locally and boycott the bad ones and look out good new companies,I personally think smaller,newer companies are better.

Our school has finally seen the light,ditched said crappy,big name franchise for a small local one all us mums raved over when he did our pre-school pics.The class photos just done were fab but I was quite annoyed as I have 3 and there were no pack options so I couldn't afford to but the grandparents any at £10 each.

Sorry anybody who tries to say school photography isn't just a huge money making exercise designed to hoodwink already broke parents out of cash must think we're born yesterday.

Oh and I can't tell you which company said photographer was with because he got quite threatening when I mentioned informing other parents.

Learn from my mistake-don't buy them

Hi Mila Mae

I'm sorry that you have had such a bad experience with school photos. I can't understand how your school kept using the same tog for so long if he was that bad. You can name and shame. He doesn't know who you are. Even when you got him ousted for one you knew was good, you still weren't happy with what was offered.

You are firmly of the opinion that school photography is a complete rip off and the togs are raking in the cash. There's no point me going into the economics of school photography, to correct this misconception, in much the same way that I can't complain about the £200 I just paid to have a filling done at my dentist, because I don't know anything about the economics of running a dental surgery.

I can only assure you, as a school photographer, with over 30 years experience, that a decent tog only earns a reasonable living comensurate with the effort put in.

The big companies are always on the look out for trainees. It's an ideal job for a mum with school age children. If you think it's so easy,and lucrative, why not apply and see how you get on. Don't go for one of the franchise operations. In those it's the person who buys in that gets ripped off IMHO.

I do hope that you have better luck with the next tog your school uses.

Thank you

MilaMae

I read your post again.

Couple of points.

I don't think the schools should "do more to protect the parents from handing over cash etc". I think they assume that the parents are astute enough to see what is on offer, then decide to buy or not.

If you paid for goods you didn't receive, the snazzy company can't just walk away and say not us guv, it's a franchise. You should follow this up and threaten legal action IMHO.

You said they wouldn't play ball because you had "returned photos in the past" Are you saying that you saw a proof, ordered from it, and then tried to return the finished product. If I had been your tog, I wouldn't have given you a refund. That is the whole point of the proof system. Before proofs, when packs were sent out on sale or return, many parents (not you, I'm sure) simply kept the pics and refused to pay.

You said "easy, buy into a franchise". Do you know what these cost? It takes a long long time to get your investement back. Steer well clear.

Thank you

The teeny,tiny proof with writing over it did not show the picture was blurred so sorry we all had every right for refunds. We're not daft, why would anybody order a blurred photo. Goods should legally be fit for purpose,a blurred photo is not fit for purpose. A proof should be exactly the same as the finished product, a teeny tiny half (cleverly)obscured photo is not the same as a huge blurred unobscured photo.

I would threaten legal action but the 3 month postal thing he quoted makes it seem pointless.He said he wouldn't chase the PO because it was gone past 3 months(I was sitting waiting unaware). The PO can't do anything as he supposedly sent it not me.

Also re parents being astute you can't be astute over something you don't get to see before buying. Said proof is as about as useful as a chopcolate teapot as most school photographers know well. Also we parents want a record of our children, to some parents a crappy over priced picture is better than nothing so they let themselves get ripped off. School photographers know they have a captive market and take advantage of it as the moment has gone. Parents know it's that photo or nothing.

As schools often make money too out of this they really should be held more accountable too ie provide value for money after all it's our children they're making money from and our purses they're getting it from.

Re naming and shaming said photographer has my address,name,my children's names and their photos so no thanks not until I've investigated the legal action bit a bit more. I'd love to make sure he doesn't rip off any other parents.

I agree that the proof should be an exact representation of the finished product,and in my case it is. On a 46mm proof you can clearly see with the naked eye if it is in focus or not. You can also enlarge with a magnifying glass. The reason for the writing over the proof is to make it more difficult for the customer to scan. You'd have to laugh though, I once went into a house and there on the chimney breast was a 20 by 16 framed pic... complete with "Proof" in 3 inch high letters.

Re your refund request... I would guess he is being deliberately awkward as you have had a strained relationship in previous years. I still think you should persue it.

Re the astute thing. Togs have been forced to go along the proof route because of unscrupulous parents. If 100% of parents could be trusted to either pay for or return full size packs, and not scan them, I would go back to "sale or return" tomorrow.

If you just want a record of your child, as you have a Nikon, why not take said child outside on an overcast day, find a neutral background, set camera to a largish eg f5.6 aperture to thrown the background out of focus, use a longish focal length on your zoom to flatten the perspective, and blast a few frames off. You can buy the mounts at lots of places. Sorted.

Schools do make money out of photo day. They wouldn't have us in otherwise. This money helps in the education of the children. They are also asking for more and more freebies like staff boards, giant display posters etc. The schools often make more out of it than the tog.

re nameing and shaming. Your ex tog has no idea who MilaMae is and probably doesn't read this forum. However probably best left alone as he might cut up nasty, if he did trace you

You didn't answer my suggestion that you try being a school tog yourself.

To finish. Assuming I was the tog at your school, what exactly, would you like me to provide. State the price you would be prepared to pay for..

Pack A... 1 off 10/7 + mount

Pack B... 2 off 10/7, 3 off 5/7, 2off 5/3.5, 4 off 3.5/2.5, 6 off minis + mounts

Pack C.... 1 off color 10/7, 1 off B/W 10/7
2 off colour 7/5, 1 off B/W 7/5 4 off 5/3.5,
Sheet of 30 micros, sheet of 9 minis, no mounts

Pack D... image on a CD

What is the minimum amount you think a tog should receive for providing you with an image.

What % do you think we should give to the school from the GROSS takings (not the net ex VAT)

How much PA, Gross, do you think a hard working full time school tog should earn.

If you (or any one else) provide that info, I will tell you if it is viable.

I love a good discusion!

Thank you

I was hoping someone would come up with some prices which were acceptable to them, in order to gauge what parents thought was reasonable. But the thread seems to have gone deathly quiet. Perhaps you've all gone away (us poor school togs can't afford it and are preparing for the Sept onslaught)

mjinhiding, The photographer can proberly do that price because he/she has no overheads and works from home as a one man band.

when you have wages,offices, fuel, production costs and flaming taxs from government and then 20% commission going back to schools there is not much left in the pot.

Ikea frames are mass produced in thousands to keep costs low and prints from Boots and ASDA are bought in hundreds of thousands.

There is no way a business with over heads can so cheap. Sign o the times.

We run a small school photography business and always ask parents what they like.

choice of single phots rather than mixed size packs seems to popular. And photo sizes that can go direct into a standard frame.

we are looking to see if parents would buy a digital images on CD and get rid of mounts.

The mounts cost more than the photos, so a 3rd could be knocked off the retail price right there.

Yes. They are ridiculously expensive for what are, in my experience, pretty crap photos.

One year, my (handsome!) eldest looked just like shrek.

Another time, my youngest was clearly forced to smile and looked for all the world like he was sitting on nails.

I buy one photo and scan it and email it to everyone. Bollocks to paying £30 or more for a set.

Sometimes the kids wont smile. they are aware of braces on teeth or spots etc Teenagers can be a nightmare to shoot.

What would be a good price for a 10x8in in a mount then? what would you pay?

You are reasonable to think that school photographs are abominably expensive.

oi oi oi pay to do your research Lyndipops

I've seen the other thread you bumped, too