to think my kid needs to see a shrink?

[MeandMyKid]

My 10 year old son has been mentally abusive to me for the past four years. He is always telling me how worthless, lazy, fat and ugly I am. This happens from the moment he gets up and starts again when I pick him up from school. It doesn't happen due to him not getting what he wants. He could be eating his breakfast or playing on the DS and then just comes out with it. He says I am a crap mother and wife and doesn't understand how Daddy (thinks the sun shines out of his ass) loves me.

So, I am no oil-painting but I am certainly no pushover either and I don't have low self-esteem. I don't let him away with bad behaviour and come down very hard on him. So far his computer ban is now 6 months and counting! If anything I wear the trousers in the family and OH would do anything for me and he is the kindest, sweetest man.

Anyway, I am beginning to feel very worn down by this and don't know how to manage it. He actually finds me disgusting and thinks I am worthless and mimics a mentally abusive partner. He has never witnessed such behaviour and OH and I are so confused.

Should I take him to a shrink? He also lies and would probably make up stories about me to the shrink - think Damien (the omen).

Does anyone else have a child like this. My other kids are adorable and I treat them all the same.

It just sounds like something 'normal' child discipline wont sort out, and the OP doesn't seem to have caught on to that, sorry OP.

The very fact that he is academically gifted is what made me think of Aspergers. Very often children with Aspergers are bright, the school should know this. Whether or not a diagnosis is useful is debatable, but it might mean that you are given extra support. As for being distraught about someone saying something to him that he finds upsetting, that is also quite normal. People with AS learn things by rote. This means that they need to be given concrete examples of how to react to something. If you seriously think this might be the case with your son, I would suggest teaching him your facial expressions of upset. Explain to him that these comments hurt you, and that you feel just as he does when someone upsets him. Just because you are a strong and able mum doesn't mean you don't get upset too. Perhaps develop a physical sign, such as holding up your hand, when he has crossed the line, and tell him that when you give the sign he must stop what he's saying / doing and apologise. Positive reinforcement is fundamental, so praise him LOADS if he manages to stop himself, and also make sure that if anyone in your household is rude or nasty, or you see anyone on TV or in the streets being like it, you use this as an example to teach your son what is and isn't acceptable. When he does something that you're please with be VERY clear that you are happy with him, using vocabulary such as "I am happy with you because" and similarly when he displeases you be straight to the point. When you punish him make sure he knows why, make sure he has an opportunity to make good what he has done, and make sure he can see the end of the punishment.
Regarding the computer issue, I would have a frank discussion about all of this and start from a clean slate. It may seem very Supernanny but I would recommend using a very visual chart to track his progress - perhaps something that he helps to design and make sure you use it every time he does something you are pleased with. I can make you a mock-up of an example if you tell me some things that your son likes?
Perhaps involve yourself in something that he does and make a special mum-son activity exclusively for the pair of you. Also, make sure that the rest of your family has some of your time, and that you have some to yourself.

loopy - great advice, but she needs a diagnosis

GD was like this at 10 (not directed at me, but mean, rude and horrid to Gran particularly) I suspect it's about growing up, asserting their own power and status and all that sort of thing.

Don't worry too much about why he's doing it, (as long as you've ruled out bullying and witnessing abusive relationships)Getting hung up on why he does it makes you go round in circles, start questioning yourself, and cutting him too much slack when his behaviour is unacceptable, instead of standing firm and consistent in expecting proper treatment of you

I'd draw a line under all the punishments at the moment (give computer back etc, but with a limited time per day) BUT put up a list of a few rules (tell the truth, be polite, tidy up own clothes or whatever). Then make some vouchers with a value (say extra 5 minutes on computer, or 5p pocket money, but keep the unit value very small). If he says don't patronise me, or similar then fine, he doesn't get vouchers he doesn't get the goodies.

Make a point of noticing and rewarding the behaviour you want and award vouchers. This should be the ONLY way that he can get sweets/treats/computer time/you spending time playing or putting yourself out for him or whatever it is he wants. (I also gave vouchers to her brother so they both had same system and same opportunities for treats) I used to sign the backs, after a rather poor attempt at forgery.

There needs to be absolutely zero tolerance of disrespect. Any of the behaviour you describe needs to be met by both of you saying it's not acceptable and sending him out of the room until he's prepared to behave properly. If he's not prepared to do this then he needs a sanction that will hurt(loss of computer etc) but it should never last beyond bedtime so that tomorrow is always a fresh day, If they feel they've got nothing to lose they won't behave

It took about 6 weeks to get her back to being the sweet kid she was before, and has lasted really well. the voucher system isn't in use any more as these things don't last forever, but I would definitely do it again.

Good luck, it will pass, let firm but fair be your mantra, and insist that DH backs you up.

older - OP says he's been like this for 4 years, though, so not a growing up thing

No jamie, just thought that and was just about to correct myself. I'd still give it a go though as at least it might improve. It could have been going on ages because he gets away with it Personally though, I'd be livid if my DH didn't challenge the kids being disrespectful to me

Yes, sorry if I was short with you. It was very sound advice. Something not adding up here.

Thanks Loopy!

I will take this all on board. The only problem is that if I say, "I am very happy..." he will say, "stop patronising me!" ARRGGGHHHH!

Agent,

I have tried everything from 3 ed psychs - all inconclusive! Many different and consistent approaches, none of which worked apart from the computer. I told him he'd get it back if he had good term and he had an amazing term! In the past I was very cross with him about the things he said to me but this didn't work so now I am ignoring it. He even boarded at his previous school for a term - not as a threat - but that didn't work. So we have tried a lot of things and as teenage-hood looms I am getting very worried.

He has always been a bit different. At aged 2 he insisted on picking his clothes and wouldn't go out the house unless he looked a certain way - AT 2!!! I on the other hand wear no make-up and fling on whatever is to hand as do my other kids and OH. I just wonder if he is wired a different way and it won't make any difference what we do. But I will keep trying.

Does the DS believe he's somehow special and doesn't have to play by the rules if the dad favours him thinking the sun shines out of his nether regions?

I recon you've done well to not lose it before now OP, it must make you so sad.

Agent,

This is why I am on here. I totally lost it yesterday and asked him "what was wrong with him, it wasn't normal, he wasn't acting like part of the family." He went to school, I cried for hours wondering if I had scarred him for life. The DH did a hatchet job on him that evening. So WE NEED HELP AND FAST as I don't want to lose my temper and say these things again.

I don't recon anybody could blame you, we had a barny with 9 YO DD1 the night before last, but you have the sustained attacks to deal with.

You and your DH need to be singing from the same hymn sheet, and definately in front of your DS.

Refer yourselves to CAHMS.

If he doesn't have an underlying psychological condition then nothing will work unless you and dh work completely hand in hand and consistently together to address this. I can't see how his behaviour can be modified with this many mixed messages.
It's sounds like a curdle of too soft/too hard.
There should be zero tolerance for verbal abuse of you.
If not now, how will you handle him when he's 16?

I think you need to do whatever it takes but maybe some kind of family counselling would be a route. Something serious needs to change. It must be hell for the other siblings?
All the best and encouragement to you, it sounds very tough.

Maybe he's just an 'orrible kid!

Seriously, does Dad work? You mentioned he was at home - so am wondering if your son sees his role model as not fulfilling the stereotypical he-man role of breadwinner bringing home the bacon. You also mention that your partner is not brilliant with discipline - again this might suggest that your son sees his father as weak and vacillating, and as you stated you tend to "wear the pants" maybe there is some deep-rooted tension here that your son is endeavouring to resolve, albeit in a rather negative way, towards you!

I had some similar issues with my eldest son, but it was following a relationship split with his father who treated my like . I wonder if your DH ever gets involved in disciplining him for this behaviour, it sounds as if you are handling it all yourself; even if it directed at you, your DH should have a view.

My now DH has been with me since DS1 was 6 years old and we have worked hard to bring respect for women into our house; it has paid off, DS1 is now nearly 13 and is nearly always respectful, not always perfectly behaved, but generally lovely and easy to bring round. He too has always been a model, intelligent if not gifted pupil at school. Intelligent children will always push boundaries hard, but as a mother of 3 boys and secondary teacher at a boys grammar school, I think if you meet rudeness with coolness simply stating that you do not like this behaviour and refuse to engage with him on any level until he has apologised, that is often more powerful than punishing; after all, he is probably looking for attention.

As for an Ed/child psych, I wouldn't go down that route, there is almost certainly something in the family dynamic that can be sorted, I would look at family counselling first, if all other attempts have failed.

Good luck and chin up!!

I would also lift the computer ban, setting limits and giving him a chance to show that he can behave well, you can always impose it again and it has probably lost any effect by now.

I'm sure I've read all this before..

It sounds like the consensus is Aspergers... the only other thing I wondered is if he is being bullied? If there is someone in class using personal insults to get a reaction, perhaps he is mimicking that behaviour at home?

But you know the key to sorting this out is your DH. If he started laying down proper sanctions - and telling your son men do not treat women this way - things could improve.

Maryz, you have just described ALL the things my kid does and says! And trust me he believes everything he says to me!

We went to see a boarding school once and when asked why he would like to board he said to get out of the house because Mum and Dad fight all the time. I know you won't believe it but we hardly ever fight. I was mortified! If I take him to him to a psychologist he will probably say I beat him up!

But have you managed to stop this behaviour now? And what can I do if all the reports come back inconclusive and the school won't accept my feelings that he has apergers?

Dad works and there are no problems at school. He as been in a few schools because he made up stories about being bullied. It now transpires he never was. I told him I wasn't taking him out of his current school even if he got bullied and low and behold he is very popular.

Is it possible someone else had the same probs hully, or the OPs posted about it before? (not to be taken as a pop at you hully)

I never remember other threads

Can I just gently suggest again that you ask for a referral to CAMHS? With all respect, your GP doesn't know how long the wait will be, since it is the CAMHS service that will decide how much of a priority it is. Plus, one advantage of CAMHS over a private psychiatrist is that they may provide access to a range of professionals, some of whom may be more appropriate than psychiatry. For example, it may be that your son would benefit from play therapy, or family therapy, or a proper assessment for aspergers.

Even if it does take too long, and you end up going to a private psychiatrist, it doesn't hurt to have your slot booked within the system.

Please don't try to diagnose this online. You've had some really useful advice here but they're only ideas and suggestions - none of us know your son so we may be way off beam. Take from this thread what is ringing true for you, and use it to build up your picture of what is going on, but don't rely on it.

If you're reluctant to go back to your GP, your son's school may be able to refer to CAMHS directly.

I will do that Hester - thanks!

Hully, I would love to see this other thread so I can contact the OP and find solace in the fact it's not just me!

MEANDMYKID - It sounds just like TheLadyEvenStar who posts about almost identical problems. You can find her threads and the advice given by using advanced search at the top