to think non competitive sports day is ridiculous and a waste of time

[PanicMode]

I went to a prep school where every child's strength was encouraged - whether one's strength was academic, sporting, musical, art, drama etc, it was found and nurtured.

My children's (state) school does non competitive sports day, which I think is ridiculous and in addition is unfair on those children that excel at sport - when do they get to shine or have their potential realised? (This is not because my children are fantastic at sport btw - they really aren't!).

(And for those who are going to say if you don't like it, move to the private sector - if you'd like to pay my four sets of fees, then I'd be eternally grateful )

My DCs' school is opposite to the OP's. Competitive sports and recognition for the fastest swimmers / runners etc (although they do try very hard to be inclusive and let all the kids have a fair go). But academic / artistic / musical excellence, although recognised and encouraged in a general sense, is not recognised at an individual level. I agree with some other posters, consistency is needed! (Not sour grapes from me BTW!)

teaching children that we are all winners is awful they will be very disappointed in the real world, if they think they will win everthing when the times comes that they lose there will be tantrums, i was awful at sports day but still enjoyed it!
my nephew has dyslexia and was forced to have the humiliantion of getting his spellings wrong every week when others always got gold stars, he also didnt understand french and even though his mother wrote a letter asking for him not to have to sit his gcse without getting a fine they wouldnt allow it so he had humiliation of sitting for 2 hours not even being able to understand the question they were being asked. surely this is worse than coming last in an egg and spoon race?
my friends daughter doesnt go to school on sports day every year, her dad takes her out and sends letter stating sports day without competition is pointless and she wont be taking part.

There's a poster on MNet who is a lecturer and she says the amount of young people who fail because they've only ever succeeded in their lives before is astonishing.

I do think we need to teach our kids to get out of their comfort zones and have a go at things.
ds is shy and isn't keen public speaking but he is forced to do it regularly at school. Of course he doesn't shine, but he no longer gets tongue tied and enjoys taking part.

The Litchick family motto is always to have a go, give it your absolute best and if you're roobish, so what?

Yes, but the flip side of that litchick is the child who feels humiliated, is teased by their friends and as a result rejects the very thing you were trying to encourage them in in the first place.

Fwiw, I am the queen of encouraging them to 'have a go', having a daughter who is extremely high achieving, and also totally perfectionist, and her natural instinct was to not try anything she thought she might not be good at (from age 2-3). I have been modelling 'having a go' behaviour to her for years, she is now much more willing to try things and not worry if she's not brillian. BUT forcing her to do something, in the knowledge she would do badly would have been TOTALLY counterproductive, and would have reaffirmed her feeling that she shouldn't try things she's not naturally good at.

I don't think we need a competitive sports day to teach our kids that life is not fair - they get that on a daily basis when they don't win the Head Teachers award, the poetry award, they don't get invited to all the parties etc.

And as for being competitive you know it really all comes down to whether the kids give a shit about the competition. DD is not sporty - running a race does not encourage her to be competitive it just reaffirms what she initially thought - she's a crap running and she doesn't like running a race - she'd prefer to dance or do gymnastics.

Sports is not all about competition - it's about being healthy and keeping fit too and losing a race every year does nothing to promote that goal.

Finally I'd be cool with a competitive element to sports day as long as it's voluntary to take part in the competitive activities - that way anyone who wishes to have fun running faster can go for their life!

Riven, i am so at what that awful man said! i hope you turned around and slapped him, the arse.

personally i think there should be competitive races and non competitive events at sports days, and that every child should take part in one event or race, no matter how good/bad they are. i remember being forced into a sprint race at school, and would much rather be made to take part in something non competitive, as all the sprint race did was show me that there was no point taking part in sports cos im crap anyway

I'm sorry to hear she strugged Lily - but while we can help out own children, and it sounds like you are doing everything you can, we can't mould the world to suit their personalities.

Sorry one final thing - life is about competition but you chose who you wish to compete with.
I'd only apply for a job that I have some hope of winning - why would I waste my time or energy applying for a job that I was not capable of doing and why force a child to run a race that they have no hope of winning - especially when they hate races? What new skill is that teaching them about life?

"There's a poster on MNet who is a lecturer and she says the amount of young people who fail because they've only ever succeeded in their lives before is astonishing."

That would be me. I still don't see how this situation is in any way analogous to a competitive sports day with parents invited and children forced to take part in races where they are bound to come last in front of hundreds of spectators.

I have had my fair share of rejection in life, but I have never been rejected from a job or lost an exam in an event witnessed by all my friends' parents. (The nearest I've come to that was my PhD viva- which is a public occasion in Sweden- but tbh anyone who puts in for a PhD has only themselves to blame, they've had a choice. Otherwise, all competition has taken place behind closed doors).

I am not allowed as a university teacher to discuss other students' exam results or essays in front of their peers. Do you think I should? Mentioning them by name? Wouldn't it be good for them to learn about rejection by having their shortcomings held up in public? (and really, some of them were very funny, I'm sure we could all have a good laugh )

Being forced to speak in public is not the same as being part of a scheme that demonstrates visually that you were the worst of all the public speakers present.

In real life, you can only get rejected from a job if you choose to apply for it; and people tend to apply for the kind of job they think they would be good at: nobody tells you you have to apply for an job as an accountant if you are innumerate or as a dance teacher if you have two left feet. In the same way, you only get refused promotion if you put in for it.

At schools sports days of the oldfashioned type, there is no choice in the matter. I don't think any of us would have a problem with optional competitive sports events. Mixed events, where some children can shine at what they are good at, and others can do less competitive things. Now that seems far more like real life to me.

And tbh it is quite likely that someone like my ds will have to choose a way of adult life that is not highly competitive. He still has to live, and it is nice if he can actually retain the courage to do it. At the moment he is very sensitive to the fact that he is bottom at everything- it may well be the truth but having it shoved in his face in everything he does doesn't actually help him much.

Failing sometimes is good. Failing all the time less so. But children who feel they always fail are not, of course, something I have to deal with in my job at the university: they don't have the confidence to apply in the first place.

Litchick, I'm not suggesting 'moulding the world to suit particular personalities'.

I am suggesting that forcing a child to take part in something competitive in front of the whole school AND their parents, in the full knowledge they will come last, is not going to make them think 'I really enjoy sport'. Whereas some fun team games, followed by some competitive races for THOSE WHO WANT TO means everyone has a good time, (ticking the recreational sport box), the 'sporty kids' can race (ticking the 'praising sporty children'), and it IS competitive, but in a team sense.

Surely the idea of Sports Day isn't to deter any kids but the high achieving, sporty ones from ever taking part in sport? Would be a funny way of teaching reading or maths, to teach all but the best readers to hate books, because they've 'got to learn about failure'.

Sorry, I disappeared off the thread after my OP as my grandmother is close to dying and I've been dealing with all the various conversations I'm having with various members of my family rather than MN-ing.

I have read all of the posts now though, and think that having seen all of the arguments, perhaps the hybrid is the way to go - to allow those that want to compete and those that just want to have fun do that.

I have also discovered that from Y2, our school do have competitive sports day, albeit in the team format with the teams winning points for their house. Another friend said that in her school, they make up teams with every team having a child from each year group from Y6 down to Reception so that the abilities and talents are mixed in - and each team then competes for a house, and that sounds like a good idea.

I just think that competitive sports teaches children a lot more than just how to run/jump/throw or whatever.

I was absolutely awful at sports but still wish there would be more competitive sports days to let kids who want to have a chance to shine do so. My middle school had a sports day where those who were sporty did "proper" races, leaving the rest of us to do "novelty" races (dressing-up race, obstacle course etc) where no-one shone as being amazingly faster than the rest. I'm very proud of the "3rd" badge I still have from 3-legged race!

Secondary school was a nightmare - we had to do a race, those who were good at particular events got to pick their favourites, the rest of us had to fit in where there weren't enough people which meant one year where I clearly remember struggling to run 800m against kids from other classes who actually wanted to do it, to the jeers of "who's the old lady" etc.

Sports day, run correctly with children of similar abilities together, teaches how to be competitive, but also how to accept defeat.

"Unlike the majority of prep schools most state schools have children with special needs. Do you really feel proud of the fact that your children can run faster than a child with mild cerabral palsy?"

I am not sure your point is valid. Should a child do less challenging litteracy because there is a child with dislexia in their class? I do not personnally think so. I think the child with dislexia has got to be encouraged to do best work they can according to their abilities and a child without any SN should be encouraged to do the same.

I certainly do not think that a child with a SN should be made fun of but a child without SN should not be vilified to be proud of what they can achieve either.

I think sports day like the rest of school lessons is there to encourage ALL the children to do their best.If you best does not make you win it does not matter as you still have the pride of the effort you put in.

So would I be proud my child beat the one with cerebral palsy in particular? No

Would I be proud of my child winning a race? Most certainly.

Speaking as the second worst in my class at anything athletic I think competition is a good thing. Being proud of your efforts and ability is a good thing. I didn't mind that someone could run faster than me or jump higher because I'd be better than them at something else. That's how life works and school should be a preparation for the real world.

The only thing I would criticise is that in my day sometimes the staff would get too personally involved. In team sports they'd want to hide the 'the one with cerebral palsy' so he didn't spoil their chances of winning.

The staff should encourage everyone and not have any personal interest in the outcome.

I agree with heavymetalglamourrockstar (and all the other posts in a similar vein).

At my DCs' old Primary, they used to mix up all years into four teams, so if you were crap, no-one would really notice but you still had a chance of being in the winning team. I personally liked this system, but plenty of parents didn't!

Now at DCs' Secondary school, no-one is forced to compete at Sports Day.... which suits my non-sporty-but-lovely-dancer DD and sporty-but-not-competitive DS, down to the ground. In other words, they are both happy to spectate.

I don't really "get" the non competitive sports day. I went to one today for the school I work at. It just seemed like a longer PE lesson but with parents there. There didn't seem to have the same atmosphere of a proper sport's day IMO. Have to say that lots of parents and teachers felt the same today. But school policy dictates.

DD's school has a proper competitive sport's day with various races, some stright forward running plus somenovelty. And the obligatory parents races - which are even more competitive! the children run for their houses, rather than indiidually, and it is really friendly and lovely. They cheer for one another and clap even harder for those trying their best even if not coming first. They win graciously and learn not to win too. There is no gloating and there are no tears.

Spoke to a student studing sports studies at university today. Lots of research are showing that all this non competitive sports at school is having lots of negative affects - children don't learn to compete, they don't learn to win and they don't learn to lose.

Children with special needs can easily be incorporated into competiive sports day. My state school has a special school attatched toit and they always joined us for competitive sports day and they two schools were miungled together competing against one another. It can and did work well.

It's our sports day tomorrow and we were chatting about the new format.

It used to be half team games followed by individual races (not compulsory but everyone encouraged to race). I used to love watching the team games - they were great fun and entertaining. The races I sort of yawned through but sat up and cheered when my dc's came last/last but one. As you do.

Now the team games are done doing the morning, and the parent viewing bit is in the afternoon - races, races and more races. So you sit politely through all of these and wait for your child's 15 seconds of fame - it's really, really boring.

I offered to help run a Pimms tent to alleviate boredom but head not keen on alcohol at a sporting occasion

As I said earlier in the thread, my DS2 and DD are by far the smallest in their classes, so tend to come last in races. But they had their sports day today, and they both came second in the egg and spoon race (which obviously is about more than just speed). DS2 is delighted, it is the first time he has ever come home from sports day with a ribbon.

This is why competitive sports day is important, even for children who don't always do well. DS2 is literally beaming, and it will have given his self confidence a huge boost. Never mind all of the races that he came last in, what will stick in his mind is the one race that he nearly won

Well ds2's school runs a non-competitive sports day I suppose. They are in their houses and move round the field doing various activities, but there are also a couple of straight forward running races with an obvious winner. I personally think it's great.

The children all seem happy which surely is the main thing. It's for enjoyment isn't it, not for a few parents to crow over their child's win. I haven't heard any of the parents or children complaining.

The lack of competitive sport in school just because somebody has to lose probably explains the state of British sport and the world cup fiasco .... "well done wayne..here's a sticker for taking part!!!!"

I like sports day..like has already been said..people who are no good at literacy still have to do spelling tests..somebody has to be chosen to be mary in the nativity..or will they start having 15 mary's sayin one line each cos somebody will get upset if they're not picked!!!

My DS will probably never get picked to be Joseph...but he's very good at sport and this is his chance to shine in public