to think non competitive sports day is ridiculous and a waste of time

[PanicMode]

I went to a prep school where every child's strength was encouraged - whether one's strength was academic, sporting, musical, art, drama etc, it was found and nurtured.

My children's (state) school does non competitive sports day, which I think is ridiculous and in addition is unfair on those children that excel at sport - when do they get to shine or have their potential realised? (This is not because my children are fantastic at sport btw - they really aren't!).

(And for those who are going to say if you don't like it, move to the private sector - if you'd like to pay my four sets of fees, then I'd be eternally grateful )

[forehead]

I find this topic very interesting. My dd aged 6 is very competitive. She is doing really well academically, however she is not sporty and doesnt do well in sports.
The school is having their sports day this afternoon and my dd suddenly developed a sprained ankle. I know that this is because she didnt want to do badly during sports day.
I insisted she take part in sports day as she has to learn that she she cant be good at everything. She cannot avoid failure.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

our school and nursery did competitve sports days and i think this is good

children have to learn that they can win and lose things

school did the 4 house groups so in every group there were 2/3children from r,1,2,3,4,5&6 doing each race and last few years dc1 (now 7) group won and yesterday they came 4th (last) and yes dc7 sulked a bit, but i told her she cant win everything and this years winners were really happy as they came 4th last year

nursery did races for each child and groups were 2.5yrs/3+ and 4+

last 2 years my 4 nearly 5yr wouldnt race/collasped on the floor/came last in most events today he was a star and won the running event by a huge amount

[thedollyridesout]

Another one here who has just got back from a hot and sticky sports day. At the DC's school they seem to have got a lot of things 'right' going by the majority of posts on here - DC volunteer to take part in a variety of races, they are also in houses and win points for position and they are placed in small teams of similar ability.

All that being said, it still didn't prevent DD from feeling upset for not doing as well as she had hoped in cross country .

[CMOTdibbler]

For those that say the children aren't bothered by coming last, or that they won't be permanently affected by this, can I share something ?

I'm 37 now, have succeeded academically, in work, and in my personal life.

But everytime I read threads like this about sports days, I'm taken back to being 6 and sitting on the field trying to hide so that I won't be made to run and be last again. To being 9, and trying to fall over and hurt my knees enough to get my mum to give me a note so I won't have to take part in something where I will be the worst at everything. At secondary school, running along crying. In a team event, where everyone complained that they didn't want her in the team dragging it down.

I didn't think I should be good at everything, I knew how bad I was, thank you very much (and am to this day indebted to my friend with spina bifida who would always volunteer to be my partner in tennis as no one else wanted me), but I didn't need to be further humiliated and shamed

[Worcesterwoman]

Life is a rat race, children need to be prepared for that ..if everyone is a winner then there's no need to try harder is there ...nonsense! A good school recognises and nurthures children's strengths and helps and encourages them to improve weaknesses. There is no such thing as a child that is useless at everything but there are plenty of poor schools who do not uncover and nurture individual children's talents. If children are good at sport, LET THEM WIN and reward them accordingly, it is just as damaging to let achievement go unacknowledged as it is to reward where reward isn't deserved.

[gorionine]

I realise now that there seems to be a lot of different sports days version. Ours is like that:
each class is separated in 4 colour groups.
the races are

Juniors
-standing long jump
-short race
-long race
-throw of ball
-team relay

Infant:
-short race
-team relay
-potato spoon race
-throw bean bags in hoops

appart from the relay, they are run individually but the winner gets a ticket of their team colour and the school team (all classes included) with the most tickets win. All the children get a certificate to say they took part and how many tickets they have got individually if any. They are not paraded or anything like that and while the races are taking place everybody gets cheered and encouraged. From what I have seen so far, after each race, children who have won get a big kiss from their parents to congratulate them and those who have not won get a big kiss from their parent to have tried their best and many times gets encouraged by other parents too. I really struggle to see that as too competitive.

(Nursery has 3 little races on a different day, they all get a medal that they have made themselves at the end and all get cheered and applauded by all the parents. This year in particular I was amazed at the children who get things a bit wrong, they just get on with it and sometimes even took it upon themselves to start the race again the right way even when they see they have no chance of winning. That is the spirit IMHO, it reminded me of Cool Runnings, Fantastic!

[distraughtmum56]

YANBU, it must be recognised that some people are better at certain things- then the more mature and well-advised children would try to improve if it was something they also wanted to win at. eg spelling, maths, stuff that matters in life.

no-one needs to be good at sports or arts to make a living, there are plenty of ordinary non-showbiz types who are pretty awful at both. and while i sympathise for those that finish bottom, it's just part of life and they need to learn early that life is not the Garden of Eden. failing to win a sack race won't lead to permanent depression!

[Butkin]

DD's sports day tomorrow and we've been out practising this evening!

They are very competitive but with some well thought out ideas ie :

a) after each event the winner gets a red badge, the 2nd gets a blue badge and the person who makes the most effort or shows team spirit gets a yellow badge.

b) as well as the individual events they have a team relay where they put the less able in with the quicker kids so they get a chance of a red or blue badge as well.

From each class the boy and girl with the most points gets a cloth badge to sew on their gym kit.

[LilyBolero]

Elibean, that sounds similar to my children's school, and is what I have been advocating on this thread, a hybrid sports day. Actually it resembles adult sport, as for most of us, sport is just something we do recreationally, and a few will take part in more competitive sport. How many adults would want to do sport if it was competitive and with an audience? I love playing tennis, but no way would I play if there was an audience!!!

The team activities is a lovely way of mixing the ages, and having Y6s working with the youngest children.

[Elibean]

state primary, btw, if it makes any difference.

[Elibean]

Well at the risk of sounding like a hung parliament, why not have both?!

dd's school (just got back from long hot sweaty sports day) does the team thing with different aged kids in the morning: its really good fun for all, and great opportunity for the younger ones to be helped and motivated by the older ones, ditto for the older ones to captain and encourage younger kids of all abilities. Really good message about fun, fitness, team work and equality.

Then we have a big picnic

Then there are year races, with medals for the top three in each year only - and medals for the morning's top three team captains.
The competition is there, and those who excel at sports get to shine and be noticed.

Why on earth does it have to be either or?

[MummyBeth]

gorionine - In my experience it depends on the school and not to sound classist or snobby about it but in areas of social deprivation the vast majority. I was once accused of bullying a child as they had never won the 'hard homeworker' prize - the child had never handed in homework, not once!

The last place I worked in, in a deprived area of Glasgow, no one was allowed to shine. Everyone was rewarded for everything - star readers, writers and mathemagicians were rotated rather than based on merit, there were no soloists in the choir - everyone had to be good at everything no one was allowed to fail - this was often demoralising for those who wanted to improve - children who worked hard, taking on advice and improving saw their peers be rewarded for lesser achievements and in some cases little effort - what sort of sense of justice are we promoting by doing this?

I have failed at many things - this is how a lot of us learn. We won't always be the successful one at a job interview or get that promotion - people often need to learn that they must be deserving of praise and not just expect it because its their turn.

Learning to cope with adversity and deal with failure and rejection is as important as and some may argue inextricably linked to learning how to triumph and excell.

I am sure there is a middle ground and every child is and should be treated as in individual - perhaps there is a case for greater afterschool participation from teachers hosting clubs where children with an interest, in whatever area, can have that talent encouraged without cost to the parents - competition could be encouraged here through entering external competitions.

Like everything there will be no one size fits all rule - maybe we should ask the children?

[pigsinmud]

LilyBolero - I feel like a stalker as I'm agreeing with you again.

Ds2's school do sports day in their houses earning points for the team. They love singing their house anthems and cheering on the rest in their houses, but no-one is made to feel crap. The teachers note down the children who threw the furtherst etc and then they take part in the inter-schools competition one evening.

Ds1 took part last year and it was a great evening. I noticed that ds1's school wwas the best at cheering on the other members of their school team. Other children from different schools were not interested once they had done their race or event. These other schools have more traditional sports days where the best athlete wins for himself. I also noticed children from the other schools crying when they lost, not so with children from our school. of course they want to win, but they take defeat well.

The team support shows itself in other areas of the school. It is a fantastic community. The best is praised, but it's not all about being the best, however naff it sounds it is the taking part that counts.

[PanicMode]

Civil - it's not a myth where I live. I moved my child from a Catholic state school to a different (state) school last year because the headteacher at the former school told me that our 'clever children are left to coast because they always sort themselves out, we need to support those who find things difficult'. Nothing to do with each child being helped to reach their own potential. My friend, whose son is still in that school, came round for coffee yesterday and has serious concerns at how his above average progress is going to be managed next year because the teachers are not being told to support the more able pupils. (This child had 38 books home on the same reading level - the mother had to point this out to the teacher before she mentioned that perhaps he should be moved up to the next level.....)

[Ariesgirl]

Possibly the answer is to have a non-competitive sports day, in which they can try loads of things AND a competition between houses or classes. We need to keep competition in schools lest we raise a generation of milksops.

As a teacher I would have loved a teacher's race. It would have been hilarious. Sadly all the other teachers were all too fat and unfit and so hated sport. So our sports day got scrapped in favour of a "try everything" day. Bah.

[civil]

Panicmode - I don't see evidence of teaching to the middle/lowest denominator in state schools.

Work is differentiated, competitive sport between schools encouraged (although it's the better sports people who obviously represent the school).

This is one of those Daily Mail myths.

[civil]

My dds primary gets it about right...egg and spoon and bean bag races for the little ones, (which are competitive but not run with technique!) with more competitive 'proper' races for the older ones interspersed with fun ones.

No complaints about it!

[gorionine]

Almost 3 I agree with you . The idea that you definitely cannot have any fun if you do not win is so wrong. My 4dcs took part in thir school sports day, not a single race won between them but beaming smiles all round!

MummyBeth, I imagine it must be frustrating if not plain scary when you have parents like that but out of an entire school, how many parents really react badly at the results and make a fuss about it? (genuine question)

[LilyBolero]

Where has this idea that the sporty kids are the only ones with no opportunities to shine come from? Looking at the kids at my children's school, the sporty kids get more opportunities than ANYONE to shine. It's the nature of sport. For a child who is good at something academic, not only do they have few opportunities to publicly shine, but they're likely to be regarded as 'not cool'. Whereas being sporty usually goes along with being popular.

[MummyBeth]

I was a teacher - before I left it due to severe frustration at having to do things I felt were wrong - don't get me started!!! But let me give you my perspective / experience...

I agree that by their nature sports are competitive,similarly, academia and the arts are also competitive and this should be reflected in schools whilst simultaneously striving to instil a confidence in children to try and to find their own strengths. Sounds poncy but that's what teacher are paid to aim for.

However, when you have a 6'2" angry man swearing at you because the same two children have won everything you begin to wonder if its worth it.

I think it a shame that the teachers didn't contribute in your children's sports day herlady... kids always respond to that and seeing their teachers 'having a go' and getting into the spirit of the day can be real boost for the children's attitude and that all important pupil / teacher relationship!

Not a day goes by when I don't miss teaching - it's such a shame that 80% of what a teacher does has little to do with it.

[almost3]

I was thinking about this yesterday at my son's competitive sports day. My youngest child is extremely academically gifted but absolutely useless at sports, he came last in both his races but had a huge amount of fun. My eldest son has very severe learning difficulties, yet is quite good at sports, (the fact that he's twice as tall as most kids his age give him an edge)however, despite being extremely fast, he doesn't understand the rules of most the races and ends up running in the wrong direction! Yet, he had loads of fun too.

There is nothing wrong with introducing a bit of competition in schools, teaching kids that they have to be gracious losers/winners is a valuable lesson.

Can I also point out that I have spent 10 years studying and am a massive advocate of inclusive education. Inclusive education is not about making every child equal (as in ability, not as in worthwhile) but it's about giving every child the opportunity to achieve their potential, surely kids who excel at sports deserve the opportunity to show off their skills as their peers who are good at music/art/maths etc do?!

[PanicMode]

LeQueen - I mopletely agree with your views.

I was talking to DH about this debate last night. Your SIL is a prime example of his POV which was as a senior manager in a global company, he sees countless young graduates coming through who have learnt to always play things safe, never try too hard because you might fail and not to show any initiative because then if you get noticed, you could get the blame. My father too thinks that there is going to be a serious lack of entrepreneurs in this country in the next generation because mediocrity is positively supported in the school system.

I feel that the non-competitve sports day, which is an extension of the current ethos in state schools, (ie that teaching to the middle/lowest common denominator just to get them through tests and gain good OFSTED results) is immensely damaging to a whole generation of children, who never learn to compete - either gracefully or gracelessly , because the 'system' allows that to happen by praising everyone all the time, without encouraging people to strive to try harder, do better, achieve more etc. |But perhaps that's a whole other debate....

[ladylush]

non-competitive