To not want to be forced to do an 'Alpha' course just to get my child Baptised

[Happybutknackered]

I believe in God and have attended church all my life. So why should I have to 'prove' it in order to have my child Baptised? Surely this is between me and God - not the church?

YANBU. Baptism, surely, is a sacrament of grace from God to us. It's not for anyone to stipulate preconditions. A mandatory ASlpha is just bollocks, and I'm saying that as an evangelical myself.

Reallytired, Alpha is a course for curious NON-Christians, not regular church-going Christians like the OP. And its content is utterly basic; it's like insisting the OP go back to sit Key Stage 1.

I'd certainly expect some penetrating questions from the vicar about what I knew about baptism. But I find it utterly bizarre that a church would insist on Alpha as a prerequisite for baptising children of regular attendees. I would consider leaving too. There must be plenty of other C of E churches in your local area who would be more flexible!

If it really is just between you and God, why bother getting them publicly baptised at all?

Oh FFS they want the money for the Alpha crap-peddling, that's all. Try offering them a cheque for the church roof repair fund or something.

Alternatively, why not give your DC a superstition free naming ceremony and skip all the nonsense?

"And its content is utterly basic; it's like insisting the OP go back to sit Key Stage 1."

beanlet, have you actually done an alpha course? It is not an RE lesson. Its not going back to key stage 1. There are issues which bishops find hard to grabble with.

A better analogy is asking you to write an essay and my eight year old to write an essay. Both of you could produce an essay on the same topic but the standard would be a bit different.

The discussions are open ended and can go as deep as you like. The make up of the group brings different life experiences.

can I just throw in that you can attend church your whole life and not have a personal relationship with Jesus and not be saved and by default not actually be a christian?

Star - wouldn't have a clue about that!

I'm disappointed because the church is lovely and very geared up toward children. I didn't want to have to have DD Baptised elsewhere but I just don't feel up to doing an alpha course right now.

CarGirl - are you saying that you do not have to attend church to be a Christian? If so, I agree with you there.

I think you just need to talk to him and tell him that you don't feel up to doing an alpha course right now? He may well come up with an alternative solution.

Anyway, this isn't about you, it is about your child. They have a right to access God DESPITE their parents. What vicar would deny a child that?

Yanbu. I'm completely shocked by that, tbh.

I think he needs to go back and read his canon law. The CofE is the established church. That means it is open to all. The parish priest has a duty to ALL souls and everyone who requests the sacrement, whether they or their parents are regular church-goers, atheists, agnostics, Hindu, Sikh, whatever.

(So I'd go over his head - contact the Bishop!)

I think an Alpha course is about 10 weeks, 1 evening a week and then one day away (if I remember correctly). So it's a big ask. Usually you may have an evening before a baptism or two to chat about things but this does seem a bit much. I appreciate the new vicars sentiment I suppose but as you go to church and are a regular it seems rather strange to expect this

I have had both my DCs baptised last year and just had one evening before hand to chat about it all with vicar (small parish church). I would certainly find it irritating to be expected to go on an Alpha course. I've helped on them pre children and know the content. They're great but I fail to see if you're a church regular, why they would expect this of you?

CappuccinoCarrie has put it better than me.

However I think the vicars new policy is actually going to put people off sadly. So YANBU.

X posted with edam. Good point!

well - I was going to say that it's not so bad really.

Then I see that you're regular church goers, at the church where you want to have the child baptised.

And it sounds totally and utterly bizarre!

At our (also CoE) church when parents want a child baptised they get a home visit from the baptism team, who talk them through what it means etc etc etc.

I know I didn't get such a visit when I had my DS's baptised, and I'm 99% sure that other regular church attenders also get to "skip" the home visit

I'm not sure that I want the hassle or the backlash of contacting the bishop tbh. The easiest thing maybe is for us to move to a different church.

Agree that might be easiest, but it allows this puffed-up popinjay to get away with putting up barriers between people and God. Someone should challenge him and ensure those in authority over him are aware of his activities.

He either wants the money or he's a nutjob touting for obedient minions. There's nothing (much) wrong with being someone who goes to church because it's sort of what you do, really, and the idea of a big skydaddy is kind of nice but not that important - new vicars who suddenly start trying to 're-energise' a contended little community centre of a church are usually up to something. They very often end up being cuaght with their fingers either in the till or a parishoner's underwear.

One does not pay to attend an Alpha Course/Christianity Explored SolidGoldBrass... unsure why you have intimated this twice?

Alpha should def be completely free of charge!
edam I expect if you asked the vicar, the last thing he'd want is to put up a barrier between people and God. By doing some sort of baptism preparation (and he's using alpha as a tool to do that) he's hoping to introduce some people to God and take down the barriers. I hope that 'those in authority over him' applaud his efforts to get more people to explore what the bible says and have an opportunity to ask questions and talk freely about faith.
However alpha has to be something you want to do, it is a 10 week course. Two evenings tailormade towards baptism may be more appropriate.

I simply don't think you should give in to this kind of blackmail. Why do you have to do it? I don't understand. (Glad to see you are going elsewhere although I am sure it is disappointing for you that he can't be baptised at your regular church).

Reallytired -- been there, done that, got the t-shirt; grew up in an evangelical family and went to evangelical churches until I was 30. I could quote the Alpha manual at you. My beliefs have dramatically widened since then, and while I'm still sympathetic, I'm no longer "one of them". In fact, I never called myself an evangelical because I found it too narrow and rule-bound.

plenty other fake christians jump through hoops for schools places. you "prove" it to obtain place in case some other snaps your place

diplodoris - I meant to say thank you for the links

Incidentally, the vicar at the church where we have now arranged to hold the Baptism told me that he is quite within his rights to impose such a condition (although he personally wasn't in agreement with it)

"the vicar at the church where we have now arranged to hold the Baptism told me that he is quite within his rights to impose such a condition "

tbh that surprises me but I suspose they are a club in a way, aren't they? I don't mean that direspectfully, I do like the CoE, but I suppose he is hardly likely to be all that damning of another vicar's approach. I still find it an unwise move on the part of thae orginal vicar but he has to know what he is doing I suppose. Can't help thinking that people are not battering down their doors these days or queuing up to the end of the street at the crack of dawn to arrange a baptism date. Might tell them something. Apparently not though.

Hope you are happy with the solution you have and things go well with the baptism and the new church generally.