To think BF-ing a 2yr old is, um, weird?

[Lucy85]

Well what do you think? I know it's a very emotive subject, but I've seen it a couple of times and it makes me come over all strange.
I BFed my baby exclusively until 7 months when I went back to work, but the thought of doing it now is just plain odd, - not wrong, it's just I can't imagine doing it to someone who can walk, talk, get their own drinks, eats proper food and is too big to lie sideways on my lap.

It's also a major part of the mother/child relationship LeninGoooaaall and therefore subject to all sorts to variables regarding timing and personality and life change, such as nursery, returning to work, or the arrival of a sibling. How can we possibly say there's a 12 month cut off when we're all so different and have different lives.

You don't see quite the same hoo hah about kids coming into parents' beds or sucking thumbs or dummies or doing anything else widely regarded as 'babyish'. But breastfeeding, quelle horreur! It's about the mother delaying resumption of relations with her partner, or being lazy regarding discipline, or wanting to keep her baby, a baby.

I'm currently trying to wean as I haven't had a period in two years and I'm 38 and want to try for another child. I'm very sad and reluctant to do this and if nightweaning only works in terms of a return to fertility, I will be happy to carry on for much longer.

I realise I've conflated the two current bf threads. This is what broken sleep and 6am work starts has reduced me to. Apologies.

thesecondcoming said: 'the thread has actually had more of a reasoned debate to it than any other bf debates i've seen on here if you read it.'

Despite the length of this thread, I haven't seen reasoned debate from the ebf objectors. Nothing beyond gut feelings (it's weird, makes me feel uncomfortable etc) and arbitrary judgements (since my child only has a dummy at night, yours shouldn't need to breastfeed during the day).

I don't understand why, beyond babyhood, people equate breastfeeding with an overall level of dependence. It's not logical. Setting aside the fact that all children are dependent on adults to some degree, you'd have to observe children over a range of activities and behaviours to come to an opinion about how dependent/independent they are.

Nutritionally, it makes no sense that breastmilk as a dietary component can be considered redundant beyond a certain (again, arbitrary) age, yet cow's milk is seen as extremely beneficial, and even 'necessary' to a healthy diet.

Totally agree with Lenin, "It is illogical to say a dummy is ok and a breast isn't"

I would add....especially as a dummy is a mock breast. What makes a copy better than the original ?

I agree there's not been much reasoned debate from the other side. I've been advised to leave my child to cry (millions do apparently, so that's Ok) and I've been told it is painful to breastfeed a toddler, and that I'm infantilising him.

Nobody has so far explained why it's OK to use a dummy for a toddler at night and not to breastfeed them to sleep.

I think I might go and get on with some normal stuff and forget about this silly thread.

I fed dc 4 until she was 3 yo and i am currently still bf my 3.5 yo ds. I don't do it to meet my needs i do it because he enjoys it and i believe that he receives nourishment. I will stop when my ds decides he's ready to stop. I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but disagree that they should be vocal about it and feel the need to make negative comments about it.

fascicle - I don't think it's as clear-cut as to say there hasn't been any reasoned debate from 'ebf objectors'

Firstly, I don't think the term 'ebf objectors' is very representative as there's very few people on here who actually object to another mother ebf. There are a few, yes, who have made ill-mannered one-liners but actually those who object are in the minority.

Also, there's plenty of us on here who aren't ebf ourselves and aren't sure where we stand but have asked questions, suggested theories and talked about personal experiences which have led us to the views we have.

I agree with pretty much everything that you've said otherwise but I just think it's a bit simplistic, if not slightly insulting to say that nothing coming from non-ebf side has been reasoned.

robynlou On another thread someone said about there being a second article but I can't find it my computer crashes every time I load a news article.

The two I know of:

The original article (not online as far as i know) in M&B rag mag, which is discussed on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/987835-To-feel-annoyed-trees-were-cut-down-to-pr int-this

and then the Guardian article about the M&B article here: www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/27/breastfeeding-is-creepy-outrage

I personally think ebf is a bit weird and not for me but I am NOT saying it is creepy or sexual nor would I ever object to others carrying on.

CakeandRoses, my comments relate to the reasoning of posters objecting to ebf, not to those who didn't ebf or have an open mind on the subject. I just haven't seen any solid argument from those who don't think it's appropriate to ebf.

I think it's ok for people to acknowledge that seeing somebody else ebf makes them feel uncomfortable. But I don't think it's fine or logical to extend those feelings, without proper basis, to making a judgement against ebf as a practice.

Cheers, Mingg...in what way weird? If you just mean unusual, maybe that would come across better than 'weird'.

I'm really fed up with people saying it's weird. It's not weird. It's a culturally uncommon thing but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with it

fascicle Yes, yes, yes. I have spent days catching up with this thread and I think you have summed my feelings up beautifully.

It is only honest to admit to a personal feeling of discomfort about ebf but totally unreasonable to extend those personal feelings to a judgement!

I for one hope to continue to feed my DS until at least 2 (6-and-a-half months currently) but even so, when I think about him feeding at that age I catch myself going . But ONLY because I have NEVER seen a baby older than 13 months bf. I really hope that in a couple of year's time we will have a situation in Britain where no-one bats an eye when a toddler is bf.

Flight attendant - I am not saying there is anything wrong with it. I was using the word weird because that's in the original post so perhaps it would be better to say that, to me, the concept is weird or if you prefer unusual/strange. Why? I don't know, I really have no explanation, perhaps because (bar 1 person who is weird) I don't know anyone who has done it. Perhaps because I stopped bf a while back and find the idea of bf my now 2.5 year old toddler strange.

I never set out to ebf my dd who is almost 2. It's just evolved and happened. So when you go through that process it doesn't seem weird but I do understand how someone else who has not got any experience of it may find it weird.

Certainly I used to find it slightly unsettling before my own experiences. My unsettled feelings definitely arose from the sexualisation of breasts and that in our society that seems to be the default setting if you like. And that beyond infancy it was slightly grubby and unnecessary, that somehow the mother was getting some kind of sexual thrill from it.

So to overcome this default setting you need either personal experience or rationalisation that actually it is a natural process and that any weirdness you feel is about yourself and your own feelings.

im not going to read the entire thread, i normally would but it's 35 pages long and i read about 15 of those the other day, so i'll just add.

first of all, this bollocks about 'the breasts are not a sex organ, thats a myth perpetuated by porn' blah blah blah.

um sorry, i get aroused by my nipples. and plenty of women do, im not sure why people seem to think women dont. theres varying degrees of arousal [and depends on the err...manipulation method] but breats and nipples are erousal spots with sensitive nerve endings. do all those people who cry 'breasts were only created for breastfeeding, they are mammary glands, thats it!' ever think about:
-if they are just for breastfeeding, why are there women out there [a small percentage admittedly] who can actually achieve orgasm by nipple stimulation alone?
-if they are just for brestfeeding, why are they so fricking sensitive? surely they should be less sensitive, so many women struggle with pain?
-if breasts are just for breastfeeding, then your vagina is just for conception and delivering babies, so do you only use your vagina to get pregnant? and why [like in nippled] do we have all those sensitive pleasurable spots, and that magic clitoris thingie?

breasts and vaginas are sexual and functional. the argument that they are one and not the other doesnt stand up AT ALL.

if someone wants to breastfeed an older child then that is entirely up to them. the thing about it being more benefit for the mother, i just think of it like a comfort blanket, or smoking, if you will. if noone forces you to stop, you are unlikely to push something that is physically and mentally satisfying away. [as in feeding the cravings]
i just worry that if i fed an older child, like a 3/4 then that child would go on to be very dependant on other things, to make up for something they had lost.

i couldnt breastfeed one of my newborn twins as she couldnt physically latch or swallow at that time, and when the problem was fixed i didnt want to change for fear of upsetting her. her twin was breastfed. both girls, despite being part of non identical triplets [my precious baby boy died in the womb] look like identical twins, albeit with a few more subtle differences. you couldnt tell which was breast and which was bottle fed.
my other daughter who is now 13 was FF, and again, you cant tell. none of my children are overweight or with rubbish immune systems, because well, the idea that FF babies cause obesity is insane. its probably that there are a lot of mothers out there who dont want to BF, and unfortunately some of those mothers then go on to feed their child fast food rubbish all the time.
obesity is caused by crap food/not enough movement, not what you were fed for a year 20 years ago!

to summarise, do what you like, dont pretend that your breasts are only there as milk bottles, enjoy your child as much as possible, and the closeness it brings, not for me personally, and if anyone wants to FF because they 'want their body back' thats not selfish at bloody all, its normal.
if PND, and feeling so desperately alone and angry towards your child [and the guilt ] is okay and normal [which it IS. its okay to feel these things, its okay to get help]
why is something like 'its my body, i dont feel comfortable with being attached to my child in what can be a very uncomfortable and time consuming way' so horrible?

do what makes you happy people, do what you think is best for your child, and be thankful that you can breast or bottle feed in a safe, warm, clean environment, as so many mothers dont even have that.

[ooh i got a bit 'save the planet' there]

oh god, sorry for all the typos and grammatical errors, i am appalling this morning!

'm not going to read the entire thread, i normally would but it's 35 pages long and i read about 15 of those the other day, so i'll just add.

first of all, this bollocks about 'the breasts are not a sex organ, thats a myth perpetuated by porn' blah blah blah.

um sorry, i get aroused by my nipples. and plenty of women do, im not sure why people seem to think women dont. theres varying degrees of arousal [and depends on the err...manipulation method] but breats and nipples are erousal spots with sensitive nerve endings. do all those people who cry 'breasts were only created for breastfeeding, they are mammary glands, thats it!' ever think about:
-if they are just for breastfeeding, why are there women out there [a small percentage admittedly] who can actually achieve orgasm by nipple stimulation alone?
-if they are just for brestfeeding, why are they so fricking sensitive? surely they should be less sensitive, so many women struggle with pain?
-if breasts are just for breastfeeding, then your vagina is just for conception and delivering babies, so do you only use your vagina to get pregnant? and why [like in nippled] do we have all those sensitive pleasurable spots, and that magic clitoris thingie?' Just for the record no one said that no one feels anything in their breasts just that some women don't feel anything in their breasts. I for one hate it always have.

Secondly 'i just worry that if i fed an older child, like a 3/4 then that child would go on to be very dependant on other things, to make up for something they had lost.' My ds was the only child in his class who didn't cry at all starting nursery and he had never been to a pre-school before he has no comfort things and is extremily well adjusted. So that blows that theory out of the water.

timeforanewwan - it'll take more than a couple of years I reckon. there's not enough tolerance for BFing babies yet, let alone toddlers!

lemonysweet, Really don't get your point. I have read all pages and I don't recall people saying breasts don't have a sexual function.

I agree penis, vaginas, hands, lips and many other parts of the body have dual or triple purposes and that doesn't bother us. So the sexual nature of the breast does not detract from also using our breasts as a source of milk and comfort for our children, does it ?

lemony can you show me the posts where it says, "the breasts are not a sex organ"?

and "breasts were only created for breastfeeding"

also, dont understand how you think a child bfed to the age of 3/4 would try and make up for something it had lost. what is there to lose by breastfeeding?