To think BF-ing a 2yr old is, um, weird?

[Lucy85]

Well what do you think? I know it's a very emotive subject, but I've seen it a couple of times and it makes me come over all strange.
I BFed my baby exclusively until 7 months when I went back to work, but the thought of doing it now is just plain odd, - not wrong, it's just I can't imagine doing it to someone who can walk, talk, get their own drinks, eats proper food and is too big to lie sideways on my lap.

"a good oppportunity to normalise bf is lost by the women whose life work seems to be demand feeding a 2 year old"

The above alone demonstrates that this is your issue, nobody else's. These 30 second latches whose purpose you cannot fathom have suddenly become a life's work. I am fairly sure I know who has the problem here.

TSC, i do apologise for singling you out, but out of the posters who have expressed negative feelings about older children breastfeeding, you seem like a person who is worth debating with without it descending into a slanging match, so i am questioning you partly for that reason!

would you not agree that putting limits on what kind of breastfeeding is normal, where, for how long, at what age etc, is about controlling something for which we partially feel distaste or fear
if breastfeeding is normal and natural then surely it doesn't matter for how long we do it, or where, or what age child, or in whose sight?

i have bf a 3 year old in the park - i would never deny people do it - i've done it myself and probably will do again, unless ds2 weans in the next year...but i don't do it to be in your face, i do it because my child wants feeding
i have never breastfed a child as a deliberate political act! when breastfeeding an older child in public i have always weighed up - my own comfort about it, v. the child's need, v. the publicness of the situation and number and type of people present, v. the level of disruption it is likely to cause to say 'no'

i am sad that breastfeeding an older child IS intrinsically a political act
wouldn't it be nice if i could just bf a 3 year old anywhere without even thinking about it? it would come very easy to me, if it wasn't for the fact that i know a lot of people will be looking and thinking 'creepy'

by sausagelover "But that's not the situation I described, these kids could wait til they get home, or the women could go to the BF room."

I would pick dd1 up at nursery and feed her in the the playroom with all the other 2 to 3yos around. She could physiologically wait till we reach got home after the 20 minute drive. I however could not take first the fighting to strap her in the carseat, then the crying, moaning whinging until she "learned" to wait till we got home. The stress on me was not worth it. After a long day's separation it was something she emotionally craved and it took 3 minutes to provide it then I had a nice quiet drive home and she had what she needed, emotionally. It also means that when we got in the home, she was not needy. And we were both destressing already.

DD1's speech came late (she only had about 40 words at 2yo) but she cued subtly for milk in public so on one else but me knew she was asking for milk. A feeding mother knows long before her child has to verbally ask, or cry for milk or starts to pull on her top to know that they want milk. It all makes me when I read those who don't understand toddler feeding talk about children pulling their mum's tops or 'demanding boob'. Because now onto the second feeding toddler, this never happens to me.

In time dd1 stopped asking/cuing for milk at pickups. It coincided with the summer weather and would pick her up from the nursery garden where she was having much too much fun to remember milk plus it is a developmental stage she was happy to leave behind.

The other more verbal toddlers in her room would gather round with great interest to watch her feed. The older ones asked questions. There was no shame or embarrassment about it from them. This weirdness or wrongness is something we learn later from our culture.

DD2 at 21 months does not cue every time I pick her up. But she does cue on the days when I pick her up a bit later than normal or sometimes if she is quite tired on pick up. They are just different girls with with slightly different needs.

Oh and as a full time working mother, I can assure the sceptics out there that I don't breastfeed for my needs.

But TSC, it is you who is allying "lentil-weaving earth mothers" with "normal" people who BF. You assert that young mums with no other role models are put off by EBFers, but with no evidence other than your own experiences and opinions. I think your suggestion is a little patronising, in fact - in most cases young mums are as open-minded and capable as any other mum.

Nobody here is saying "I'm a yoghurt knitter and I BF my 10 year old in the playground and I'm proud of it". People here are just trying to explain why they breastfeed children who you perceive to be "too old". They are trying to enlighten you, not force anything down your throat. You have seemingly chosen not to believe or acknowledge their reasoning.

so you think women who ebf are doing other women who want to breastfeed a disservice?

interesting opinion

i think if you are waiting to staff a breastfeeding support group from volunteers who breastfed their babies for 6 months and then stopped, you will wait a long time
many of these groups tend to be organised by mothers who have ebf because it is something they care deeply about
i think to dismiss people who give their time and experience like this as lentil weaving earth mothering types is divisive and intolerant
you are saying that only a certain type of mother should volunteer as a breastfeeding supporter? basically, just mothers who are.....like you?

BTW I do think that bfing toddlers is a lot more common than anyone realises. All of my nct group bf till 1 and 6 out of 8 bf till they were over 2. we admitted this to each other, but most of them said that if it came up in conversation with other people they would actively lie about it and would never ever feed in public because they didn't want the lentil weaving/militant bf-er label.

An nct group is naturally more likely to contain people who bf for longer, but still, I think there's a lot of women who continue bfing but don't let it be known. I don't deny it if asked directly, but most people I know wouldn't realise I still feed m, even those I'm close to, if it doesn't come up then I don't bring it up.

LOL enjoy the party!

"i don't know if the child was upset or merely thirsty"

You are extrapolating a lot about a situation you did not witness, which dealt with a parenting situation you are not familiar with i.e. extended nursing.

An older nurseling will accept juice/water in a cup if they are thirsty only but if they need/want to nurse that is a different need. Breastfeeding is more than just milk in a flesh container.

TBH unless you have nursed an older child it is very difficult to understand things from the outside.

As a newbie to ebf threads, I've found this fascinating (the bits that have been actual discussion, not so much the insults!)

It's made me really question my own views on it, particularly as whilst I bf my DS until 14 months (which it appears some would consider extended) and only stopped because I was pg with DC2 and felt my body needed a break, I've never thought of myself as someone who would ebf. I'm now wondering what I'll do with DC2, who will be my last and therefore I won't have pregnancy as a reason to stop.

Whilst logically it completely makes sense to me to continue bf at least until two (when children are still relying on milk for nutrition), if I'm honest my gut reaction to it is a bit 'Oh no' but I'm not sure why.

Does anyone have any info on what was the norm for humans centuries (or longer) ago? How long is the norm to bf for tribes far away from 'civilisation'?

Oh and very childishly, I think part of my reaction to ebf is the notion of a child asking for your breasts, particularly using the word 'boobies' (sorry but this makes my skin crawl) - I don't understand why it's not simply 'milk'?

I wonder if I am a lentil weaving earth mother type because I have breastfed both dd's past that arbitrary age of when it is weird or wrong as well as always working full time.

or maybe I am a lentilweaving fulltime working earthmother.

'boobies' is not the word i like to use either! ds asks for "vook" (milk) or "vookies"

I was and extended bf'er, but it was nothing to do with politics. I continued because I believed it was the healthiest option, firstly for my child and secondly for me.
I think one of the problems is that there is so little education and information about the linked health benefits of long-term breastfeeding. When I started bf'ing the emphasis of the literature seemed to be on persuading mothers to keep it up for 6 months.
I think the breast-feeding information available sets its sights very low.
Extended breastfeeding must seem like a slap in the face to women who struggled to start breastfeeding and didn't have support, or those who felt pressurised to wean completely when returning to work because there was no education about a third way, combining bf and ff.
If there is a stigma in continuing surely the breastfeeding literature and groups should be helping to address this. Women need more support to continue in the face of what they see as social rejection.
I felt funny about breastfeeding my toddler in public, although I continued at home.
It's madness that feeding a child is so sexualised and frowned upon.
Even fathers I speak to now have mentioned that they feel uncomfortable sometimes when taking their children to the loo or comforting them in public because of the fear of people wondering about their relationship. I wonder if we have been brainwashed by the media to place too much emphasis on our sexual side at the cost of our other role as nurturers and parents.

cakeandroses - my dd doesn't call my breasts boobies because I don't so she's not really learnt that word. she asks for "mum mums"
From birth when she cried for milk I said (amongst lots of other nonsense!) is it time for "num nums" she combined it with mama and got mum mums - one of her first words.

it was a totally unplanned, but I'm really pleased it ended up being that word - if she's asking for mum mums at an inappropriate time (say when I'm in a meeting for work as she comes along with me a lot) it's reasonably easy to pretend she's just asking for my attention, not my breast!

oh and newtons first law of motion I think sums up the way mine and dd's bfing has gone on till now...

"Every body will persist in its state of rest or of uniform motion (constant velocity) in a straight line unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed on it"

CakeandRoses Kathy Dettwyler has done a lot of cultural, cross species and anthropological work on weaning. the natural age of weaning

the other pages of her website makes for fascinating reading.

The historical photos on this facebook group shows that in our very recent history, less than 100 yrs ago. Women breastfed quite openly, boobs over the top of her shirt and shirt unbuttoned in front of, gasp, strange men too.

One of the criticisms I have of the 20th century ones that it shows mostly poor (white and black) women, or native peoples doing so. So ergo that formula is for people who can 'afford' not to do it. but there are a few examples in it of more affluent westerners breastfeeding in the photos too. The white women breastfeeding in a bus station in Kentucky, I believe, seemed not to be poor white and desperate.

I love it too that is shows women in working situations. Debunking the idea that women either stay at home and feed for as long as 'she needed it' or that working women wean their babies early / practice curtailed breastfeeding and give their babies formula so that they can get their bodies/life back. Women have always breastfed and worked. T'is a myth you have to rest and not get stressed or you 'can't breastfeed.

'vook' and 'mum mums' are cute

thatbuzzingnoise - thank you for that, bookmarking for when I have a mo to read.

thebuzzingnoise lovely photos.

loving the Newton analogy RobynLou!

I don't like the idea of babies asking for boobies either. At the moment anyway. I really really cringed, TBH, when my friend asked her DS if he wanted titty - mostly because 'tit' is used as a derogatory term. I must be a prude...

anyway, when DS was born I told DD he was having mummy milk, so maybe that's what it'll stay as. have also heard from others 'bububs' and 'mimi'.

Titty Do you know I hate that word more than the c*t word. Probably because the c*t word is used to describe males negatively but tits is used as a derogatory term for women mostly.

also, back to the whole earth mother thing. I don't thing TSC is necessarily being harsh here - it really depends what group you go to. My friend took me to her usual one and that's what it was like - a bit... vegetarian shoes.
I would cope with that if it was my only option (support-wise) but TBH I didn't enjoy it that much. I didn't quite stick out like a sore thumb, but YKWIM. it seemed a bit exclusive.

however my local group, where I started going before DS was born, is utterly different. loads of extended BFers (most of them now peer supporters) but a wonderful range of people - in terms of wealth, age, race, job/SAHM... everything. most weeks there's at least one new mum and they never seem to look round and think "oh lordy, what kind of freakish bunch is this?"

I thought EBF was wierd and a bit yuk until I became a mum myself!

oh and if you need any more convincing that my local group is full of 'normal' EBFers - we often take our lunch with us, and sometimes that lunch is... wait for it... McDonalds!!!

but my point is, TSC's group may well have been all lentil-weaving blah blah blah, and I can understand it being off-putting.