to think that VAT on food might not be a bad thing?

[NotAfraidOfTheBudget]

It probably wont happen, I know, but if it did, would it really be so bad?

Lots of foods already incur standard rate VAT (all of them are processed and the sorts of things we should only have occasionally), now the govt has thought about applying a ~5% VAT on everything else.

AIBU to think that if food cost more, then we might start respecting it more? It has become a disposable commodity for a lot of people, who buy more than they need, throw away a lot, and buy into all the advertising/brand names/pester power, etc. Basic foodstuffs (ie non-processed, plain fruit, veg, meat, fish) is what sustains a race of people. Crisps, ready meals, fizzy drinks, biscuits and cakes should be considered the luxuries. If you are on a lower income, you probably wouldnt buy a foreign holiday, a brand new car, new dvds every week. So why should food luxuries be seen as an automatic right?

For a family on an 'average' (according to the govt) income, adding VAT to all foods will cost around £20 a week. And will bring in a huge revenue to set against our massive budget deficit. You at least then have the choice of cutting your food budget (fewer luxury foods) or accepting it and resign yourself to spending less on going out/booze/lottery/Sky TV/whatever.

Am I also BU in thinking (hoping) that more expensive food might just get people back into cooking real meals rather than relying on the salt-laden, transfat-saturated, convenience meals?

slushy, it's just that, when I demonstrated how ot eat for under £1, you came back with "better than £1 sausages, yes, but hardly your 5-a-day".
which was, quite frankly, an odd response.

fine, people may not see how to eat well for under £1. but when it is shown it is possible, you bring up more opposition to it.

vary the veg, add in some fruit where possible, and there you go. boring, possibly. healthy, yes.

I do not agree that adding vat on (and I am not necessarily saying I agree with adding the vat on food anyway) will automatically mean people eat less heathily. as toccata pointed out - bulking out with veg is cheaper than most forms of bulking out.

people may choose to eat more unheathily, but then, as has been shown on this thread, they are already choosing ot do so.

toccata
I have a leccy meter, but if I have the oven on for a long time I fill it.
I'd perhaps put a crumble in too and then fill the spare spaces with potatoes.
Jackets for the next night, and scoop out the insides of the others to make and freeze mash for another time.

The other thing I do in winter is take the tiny (kids) table in the kitchen and DD and I play boardgames in there and turn the heating off.

Sound a bit sad I know but every penny counts and all that!

and of course you can then use the cheese in a "something with salad" on another day, so as it's all grated a block of cheese has already gone for 3 meals.

It's all about meal planning, of course if you're going to buy different veg for each meal it's going to cost a lot. If you plan carefully, while it may get a little monotonous you can use the same bag of carrots to go in Silverfrogs pasta, chopped/grated with a salad, served up with a nice roast chicken (which can then be used for left overs with a salad/pie/sandwiches/whatever, and the carcass used to make stock).

muggle - that's fair enough, I guess just never having had a meter, and knowing friends that have suddenly found they've run out at some ungodly hour of the night i'd be nervous.

when you use it like you've described it makes good sense.

I agree with the op, for the simple fact that it has generated an interesting MN debate.

For example, i am now much more aware how many sausages people eat

Would there be a way that British/local food would be low/tax free? But imported could be taxed?

"For example, i am now much more aware how many sausages people eat"

too many in this house - it's a rare treat for them these days LOL

nutritionally crap - in what way? Starch, veg, protein (from non-meat sources), dairy,

it's one meal out of an entire day,

chicken drumsticks (or any portion) are a bad deal. Rarely buy those and you pay so much for such a small amount of meat when you could buy an entire chicken for not much more!

Of course I don't cook for under £1 every day, and I'm sure many others don't either. But the poster wanted examples of healthy meals that cost £1 or less.........

VAT is a regressive tax - it doesn't take into account ability to pay and it will always penalise the lower paid.

Our food bill is pretty high but as a proportion of our earnings is low. IMHO it's about education and having a 'better' relationship with food and respect and that goes for both suppliers and those that consume it. Idealistic, maybe, but its a shame when so much of the population doesn't actually understand where the food comes from or what it could possibly contain.

if you mean the pasta suggestions, swallowedafly - they are a good deal better to be eating consistently than £1 sausages and waffles!

tomato/veg sauce one day, cheese sauce the next. vary with pasta/rice/jacket potato.

if you are a reasonably confident cook, add in pulses/lentils etc for variation in nutrition.

I agree you can get mince reasonably - bulk out with veg/lentils again/tmatoes and you can easily make it last a few meals.

when I cook a spag bol, it does the 4 of us twice, and still a couple of portions for dd1 to take to school for lunch - and neither of my girls are small eaters! they may not rival tocc's boys , but they are definitely in the 3-sausage+ camp!

add in fruit for snacks, and, tbh, you have our diet. simple, easy to cook, and no crappy additives (not saying that in a smug way - the girls, and dd1 in particualr cannot tolerate them at all, so I have no option but to cook everyhting for them. although I always have done anyway)

The trouble with meal planning for lots of people is that "they're just too busy" or "it's not spontaneous" or "it's boring". Food and meals has become something that people do because they have to in order to stay alive. Families dont sit down together to eat, parents pander to their kids' fussy habits, TV dinners are the norm. And as our lives have got busier and we have less time to plan and think about food, the cost of eating easy food has dropped, food companies are eager to advertise the convenience of processed meals, and the supermarkets make much more money from the cook-chill, the confectionery, the crisps and the longer-life processed stuff than they do from the perishable, short-life fruit and veg and as a result they really push it to us. It really is no wonder we have such a bad relationship with food.

I remember the days before ready meals were widely available (Vesta curry anyone?), when a king-size mars bar was the largest piece of choccy you could buy, and before Pringles were invented. The advent of all these sorts of things has discouraged the population from cooking by making us feel like our time is too precious to waste on something as boring as eating. We have to reverse this idea, get back to real food (not necessarily cooking everything from scratch) and put in a little extra time to eat something good and feed our children with nutritious food rather than tummy-filling with excessively salty processed carbs and rusk-based 'meat' products.

I would welcome a ban on imported meat, particularly those chickens from the Far East and the dodgy beef from the deforested Amazon. I really do think that only by making low-quality food less accessible and less cheap will we start to respect it again.

agree that we need to get food/life balance back into perspective.

cooking can be irksome (believe me I know this - due to allergies I have no easy options), but it doesn't have ot take up so much of your time either.

menu planning also not really that difficult - people make shopping lists - it's just a variation on that, really.

but yes, we need to get back to realising that we need to eat food - real, proper food, not somehting which has been bulked out with god knows what to make it the right shape/size to appear filling, but which, nutritionally speaking, is a pile of crap.

Everyone is going to get hit. Public sector workers will be getting this with no pay rise in line with inflation...everyone will hurt.

That all seems a bit "some of the class just can't/won't behave, so now none of you are allowed Jaffa Cakes" to me.

I'd vote for the motivational carrot of education rather than the stick of high prices.

but if vat was put on food some of the poor would have to eat like that day in day out .

sorry, slushy, I don't understand - some of the poor would have ot eat like what?

'was saying if you ate like that every day it wouldn't be great. cheese does have some protein yes and pasta has starch and carbs but i know from experience (i was a veggie who didn't eat veg for quite a while) it's no good for you to eat like that all the time.

i was just stating my opinion that in terms of getting good iron and protein, veg and carb in a good balance without excessive saturated fats for under a pound for 4 is a stretch but it isn't much more than that to make a really balanced meal.' some would have to eat for under a pound the pasta meals you suggested everyday.

Well it's all moot now anyway...he isnt putting VAT on food.
Thanks for your lively debate everyone , now please get back in your kitchens and COOK!!

But just so my view is clear I have no objection to junk food being taxed but I object to healthy food e.g fruit and veg being taxed. In the long run I think if healthy food was much cheaper no one would bother with junk food.

yes, but as swallowed said - she was a veggie who didn't eat veg!

we do eat like that eveey day, already. I can afford to buy meat, so we have spag bol and shepherd's pie, chicken sometimes.

but I still maintain, eating pasta/rice/potato for carbs, dairy sometimes, veg a LOT, and fruit for snacks is way healthier than waffles and sausages.

carbs - yes
veg - yes
protein - yes (although not brilliant unless meat added in, or pulses/nuts/lentils if vege)
fruit - yes.

vitamins, iron, protein, starches all covered.

beans have protein in them - and they're available very cheap - especially if you buy the dried ones, soak and cook them yourself.

'but I still maintain, eating pasta/rice/potato for carbs, dairy sometimes, veg a LOT, and fruit for snacks is way healthier than waffles and sausages.'

FGS I have agreed on this point twice already
here 'good and better than sausages'
and here 'Silverfrog I am aware that your meal was healthier and I have said so and I didn't say the sausages were healthy,'

well yes, bu thten you go on to be sad that people might "have" to eat pasta/veg sauce combos?

wtf do you want? there's the cheap crap way, or the cheap healthier way.

choice for everyone, and I don't see what there is to be sad about eating healthily!

'(although not brilliant unless meat added in, or pulses/nuts/lentils if vege).'

But that takes you over the pound budget which is fine on a forum discussing things hypothetically but if you don't have the extra you don't have it.