to think that VAT on food might not be a bad thing?

[NotAfraidOfTheBudget]

It probably wont happen, I know, but if it did, would it really be so bad?

Lots of foods already incur standard rate VAT (all of them are processed and the sorts of things we should only have occasionally), now the govt has thought about applying a ~5% VAT on everything else.

AIBU to think that if food cost more, then we might start respecting it more? It has become a disposable commodity for a lot of people, who buy more than they need, throw away a lot, and buy into all the advertising/brand names/pester power, etc. Basic foodstuffs (ie non-processed, plain fruit, veg, meat, fish) is what sustains a race of people. Crisps, ready meals, fizzy drinks, biscuits and cakes should be considered the luxuries. If you are on a lower income, you probably wouldnt buy a foreign holiday, a brand new car, new dvds every week. So why should food luxuries be seen as an automatic right?

For a family on an 'average' (according to the govt) income, adding VAT to all foods will cost around £20 a week. And will bring in a huge revenue to set against our massive budget deficit. You at least then have the choice of cutting your food budget (fewer luxury foods) or accepting it and resign yourself to spending less on going out/booze/lottery/Sky TV/whatever.

Am I also BU in thinking (hoping) that more expensive food might just get people back into cooking real meals rather than relying on the salt-laden, transfat-saturated, convenience meals?

not in this house it wouldn't there's no way 20 sausages would last the 4 of us for 2 meals, even bulked out with wedges (home made), beans, eggs, etc!

see, that i can't understand - if you're not using the sausages as sausages, then it would be cheaper to go to your local butcher and buy a pound's worth of meat. (minced or ground)

nickel - who are you talking to

I do use the sausages as sausages. Either with bean/etc, or toad in the hole (with a lot of veg to bulk it out)

no, i was talking to slushy!

another thing i'm worrying about - i have always grown quite a bit of my own veg, but DF's soil/garden is quite basically shit - we have sown loads of seeds, had loads of seedlings to plant out and the garden has killed them all!
apart from the pepper plants (which still look very weedly and crap)

so i've got to buy veg that i wasn't planning on buying.

that's not the only thing i'm worried about, obviously.

they've just said that the budget shouldn't affect anyone's jobs - don't know if they realise that making small businesses struggle is actually affecting people's jobs (including mine)

ah - fair enough - I was just being a bit blonde

I'm kind of hoping that if they put VAT on food that my appetite stays at zilch, if I get my appetite back and food is costing more I'll be stuffed >>

Does your local council offer cheap compost Nickel? we used a few bags for our allotment last year as we had a bad year and this year,our veg are growing really well.

Tee hee @ mad Tory bitch! I have never voted Tory in my life! I do love a good debate though - isnt that what AIBU is all about? And if some posters have stopped to think for just 2 seconds about the money they are spending on food, and the possibility of having to cut back, then that can only be a good thing.

My middle name is devil's advocate

And FWIW I would not call £1 sausages "feeding" your family. In an average month, to feed a family of 4, I spend around £40 on meat, £30 on fruit and veg, and about £100-£150 on all the other food and supermarket stuff (inc toiletries and some wine).

Like Toccata, on the months when we have had to get lots of picnic/party/processed stuff, the food bill is way way higher.

YABU. Whatever money we have that doesn't go on the mortgage and bills goes straight to the supermarket. We would struggle to find an extra £20 a week. Lots of people would find it impossible. It must be nice to think it's too paltry a sum to matter.

oooo I'm not sure I like the idea of having to cut back, my actual shopping budget for a month is £200, although recently it's been way higher because I've been eating crap .......so I suppose it has made me think about cutting back and shopping properly again

'It is called A-roads. Or just getting up earlier and wating for a train.'

a sigficantly longer journey- we're talking extra hours, not minutes. Plus we already pay to use that road- £5.60 a bloody time.

Trains? NBo train station in our small town / village

Train parking costs £13 per day plus £22 - £50 9depending n who is travelling) to get to my Mum; simply not an option when 2 can travel same distance in DH's commuter SMART car for £7, or our family car for £20.

Now, it wopulod be different if we were where we used to live and could drive the A38 instead of the M5 but not evceryoine has that. Living here has been an eye opener thatay.

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVU

An extra £20 a week might not seem like a lot to you, but it's a hell of a lot to me. Our family of 3 have a weekly groceries, trips, bus fares etc budget of £100 between us. That's a 20% increase in our costs you're proposing.

And yeah, it would likely steer us towards cheaper less healthy foods. As it is DH and I struggle to cook from scratch healthy foods on our budget.

The problem is it wouldn't just be a tax on those for whom £20/week is no big deal. It'd be a tax for people on the dole, single parents on income support, pensioners etc, etc.

MN can be astonishingly callous to the situations of the poorer in society sometimes, the world does not just consist of the middle class!

Unless the money raised was spent on educating people on how to cook and eat proper food, and on decent local shops for poorer communities (most of which currently only stock crap and expensive crap at that, and most of their customers can't afford to go elsewhere to buy better value food) then all you would do is make the poor poorer. Which is exactly what the Tories want.

I also wouldn't call £1 sausages feeding: would that it were, Dad works in a factory making them, I can get those for free.

The GF flour ds4 has costs 6 times what a bag of saver bag costs; the goats milk and other DF options DS1 / 3 / 4 and I need also adds a big total and often removes the option to buy savers anything as you'd be surprised where they can hide casein!

Our food budget expands to fill the available sapce: usually in the greegrocers tbh, they could eat more fruit than I coulde ever buy but like most people we have no choice but to limit it.

But even without the 'extras' we already in effect pay a tax on having serious food problems- and we would be resortng to cheaper less nutritioous options if it were taxed.

The Vat should be proportional to the FAT content.

Poshwellies I couldn't agree more I just used it as a example and I am sure people who do eat like this are no happier about it than you or I would be.

'20 sausages last a family of 4 for 2 meals?????' Yep two sausages each and two spare for whoever is still hungry. Add vat on to everything and loads more will eat like this.

That £20 increase was quoted from a govt spokesperson who said it was the probable increase in food costs for the average income family. That means it's averaged over all those who do cook from raw ingredients and those who live on processed food exclusively. Like all statistics, it can be read in a million ways.

And I think you misread my OP, it's not I who is proposing this, and I never said £20 wasnt a lot to me. I am just trying to see the government's proposals in a good light and possibly preferable to the alternatives. And starting an excellent debate on MumsNet!

my 3yr old eats 2 sausages (and more) proper ones, if I only gave them 2 each they WOULD want more........ and filling them up on extra stuff costs more than just providing more proper food at the meal

Sancti

In what way do you pay £5.60 a time to use the road? Is there a toll?

My bigger point, in any case, was not that this was easy or even fair. Just that it is fairER than putting VAT on food. You have chosen to commute; no one chooses to eat.

If you don't commute, you are poorer; if you don't eat, you die.

I cannot see how VAT on food is fairer than differential charging for transport.

qs...thats no good for the low carb eaters....why fat?

"The Vat should be proportional to the FAT content."

and penalise those who support our dairy farmers by buying British butter? and penalise those who live by the Meditteranean diet and cook everything in olive oil? I dont think so!

oh - I know a meal that costs less than £1

cheesy pasta.........ok yes I use the value pasta, but a 500g pack of pasta twists costs 38p, the white sauce with cheese grated in costs very little as I always have flour, butter, milk and cheese in.

I'm guessing around £1.50 to do that meal twice, £2 if I chuck some lettuce/cucmber/tomato on the plate with it as "salad"

yes FAT is an interesting one, like it or not, you do need some fat in your diet to be healthy - especially younger children. Obviously it's all in moderation and you don't want to be eating fat laden stuff all the time, but it is an important part of our diet.