To think the behaviour of these mothers is shocking and they bloody well deserve a slap?

[SassySusan]

Message deleted

Annie
Exactly. It is not about the comforter, it is about the bereaved.

How many people do things like the concert, or the song, or post a FB page in "memory" of the person who has died in a smug "oooh, look at me, I have lost a friend and I am being so comforting" way instead of quietly turning up at the parents house with a big pot of stew.

Firstly can I say sorry for your loss, Sassy.

Now, I'd like to say that frankly it doesn't matter whether you're being unreasonable or not. You have lost a child which I think means that those around you should do everything in their power to make your horrific journey as bareable as possible.
That should be a measure of a decent society.

I'm appalled that so many posters on here are saying your should be more understanding of their awkwardness. It is not for you to make allowances for others. Shocking attitude.

Do you know what? If I was a nursery mum and had felt awkward and said something stupid to you. I'd stop and just say, 'sorry that was unacceptably insensitive of me. It was just nerves.' Is there anything I can do to help you at this time?' Would you like to talk about your DD? I'd then do something like ask my child all their memories of your child and write it down in a card for you. You may have found this insensitive but personally, I'd rather do something and you think that than ignore your loss. However, 'the song' is beyond the pale really. Bet she'll put it on her CV too!

Professorlayton, your sleep hazed comment to the mum with the oxygen fed DD was understandable. However, then ignoring her for weeks because she'd made you feel bad is really shameful behaviour.

Accepting that all those who are bereaved react in different ways and need different things is not an excuse for society to ignore them/you and try to hide you away like a dirty little secret.

excellant post archstanton

People totally ignored me when I returned to work after my brother died (I've written about this on other threads so won't go into it here). I still feel horribly hurt and confused by that. The thing is, I would have bawled if they'd offered me any sympathy, or even if they'd smiled and said I'm sorry, but that was ok. I haven't bawled enough in public I don't think.

Annie, I wish I was in Ireland when my brother died. It sounds like attitudes are much healthier there. To those of you having a go at Susan for not being understanding of others, give her a bloody break. Porca said it better, but please. Do you really think someone who has just lost a child is in any position to feel anything other than angry at people who make crass comments? Susan - hope this thread has helped you express some of the anger you feel towards those mums, without actually physically slapping them. Am wishing you lots of love xx

You see I think we have got it a bit wrong here. Nothing anyone says will make Sassy feel better and I think all the comments about "people don't know what to say", reasonable as they are are aimed at making Sassy feel less angry. She has every right to be angry and can direct it at whomever she likes. If a person can't be unreasonable two months after the death of a child, then when can they be?

Sassy I am so sorry that your daughter died. This must be the most horrendous time for you and if it helps you through the pain to be angry (it helps me sometimes) then that is fine.

However you feel is reasonable it really is.

I think you shopuld go and post in the bereaved parents thread now. This is not the place for you to be, there are too many "reasonable" people on here and there os mothing "reasonable" about losing a child .

I think the list posted by shabbapinkfrog at 09:30:17 has been the most thought provoking part of this thread.

My overwhelming feeling after reading the whole thread is to feel even more unsure of how to act. I really can't work out from people's comments what is the best thing to say/do. I will try to take on board Shabba's list, and hopefully it will lower the risk of me upsetting someone in the future.

OP and other bereaved parents, I would be genuinely interested to know whether you feel that you always said the right thing to a bereaved person in the years before you sadly ended up having direct experience of bereavement?

SS - I have no idea what you are going through but knowing how I am over miscarriages I have had I can only imagine how much harder losing your daughter is. Did you have her for 2 weeks before she died, or have I misread?

I genuinely do think people don't know what to say and I don't think you can expect people who have had no experience to know the right thing to say. People don't always take the time to think either before blurting something out. When my friends mum died I said I was so sorry, sent a card and also told her i didn't know what to say to her but I would help her anyway I can. She appreciated me saying I didn't know what to say.

On the opposite side I get embarrassed if the subject comes up of my lost babies as I feel stupid I am so upset by it and how I will never get over it when it has been 5 years now. I guess I am trying to spare the other persons feelings.

Yesterday was the 5th anniversary of my dd's birth and death. It was a pretty crap day; I always feel rubbish on it. When she died I was blazingly, outrageously, painfully, frighteningly angry for weeks and weeks. I didn't know what to do with it. I don't think anyone at all said "the right thing" to me - it was just impossible. They'd committed a crime to me by just plain being ok and not in pain like me.

People did say incredibly stupid things, like many on the list above, and there are people I avoid now, as I just don't have time for them. BUT; I do see that people get nervous, and I do understand it. I think that if you do something out of nerves you should, however, have the guts to go back and say "I'm so sorry - that was really stupid of me, I don't know what I was thinking". Sassy, I think you need to feel whatever you feel right now, tbh. I don't know what it's like to lose a child that you could talk to, who had likes and dislikes, who could make you laugh. It terrifies me to think about it. Catherine sounds like a wonderful, delightful girl, and I am so sorry that she's no longer with you.

SS - so sorry, I was wrong about the 2 weeks time.

Sassy,
I have no relevant experience to share. I do want to say I feel for you-over the loss of your daughter and the insensitivity you've had to endure since.

This thread has irritated me in the rather bland and unthinking way many posters have come out with 'Oh, they mean well' and 'They just don't know what to say'. It has an odd symmetry with the kind of comments you are (rightfully) complaining about.

Anyway neither of those things, even if true of everyone, excuses complete thoughtlessness, which is what is on display when people speak to you like that.

Real compassion and empathy will out. If people do care, and want to comfort you, they generally find a way, however cackhanded. If they get it wrong they apologise, but one can generally sense the real caring behind it. What you describe is unthinking and self-absorbed.
My MIL died horribly in April and DH and I have had a small taste of what you are describing. All I can say is we are editing our list of friends accordingly.

profound condolences to you, sassy. i hope this thread has been useful for you, as a temporary valve for the understandable rage that you are feeling. no question that the song was disgustingly insensitive, but i don't accept that those people wishing you a 'nice weekend' have anything to be ashamed of.

people do deal with things differently, few of us have lost our children but i doubt that any of us have not been bereaved at some time. so, we go with how we might like people to have behaved towards us, and sometimes that's right for the person in front of you, but unfortunately sometimes it's wrong.

For all those posting to say they never know what to say, follow this link to a leaflet on how to support bereaved parents. Read it, absorb the advice and act on it next time you're faced with someone else's disaster.

I have been (still am) on the receiving end of this so I can assure you that it's good advice and it does help.

Sassy, yanbu. I think it's about time society in general woke up and stopped hiding from death.

Zeno that's a fantastic leaflet. And applies I think to all family bereavements. Thanks for linking.

Thanks zeno. Very useful.

Thanks Zeno (I couldn't find the earlier link to other thread).

Zeno...fantastic leaflet

Sassy, I hope you are OK

Brilliant leaflet Zeno.

Compassionate Friends are an amazing organisation - bereaved parents helping other bereaved parents. God bless them for all the great work they do. Yet - many HV, doctors, nurses etc say they have never heard of them!!!

I am so sorry Susan that you lost your daughter. I have absolutely no idea what that must feel like.

My best friend's son committed suicide whilst at university 4 years ago. I have never seen anyone so destroyed. People avoided speaking to her - I think not only because he had died, but that it was somehow embarassing in that he had killed himself.

She was so furiously angry and bitter at times, and it nearly sent her over the edge.

She is a very close friend and i know her so well, however iwas completely at a loss in how to help her sometimes. Thank god that we are so close that she felt at ease in 'lashing out' as it were.

The thing is some people are so monumentally thoughtless - my friend had random people saying 'of course he must have been on drugs' (he wasn't, he was incredibly anti drugs, he was just incredibly depressed) and a load of his friends and teachers organised a benefit at the school he used to go to (and the school where she worked in the office) without telling her, so she went to work one morning to se posters of her poor dead son all over the place, and people kept back the planning of the memorial concert from her as they thought it would be a nice 'surprise'.

People tried to do things from the right place, however some peopel desiapyed unbelievable arrogance in thinking that they knew better than the grieving mother.

SassySusan, I do not usually post on these threads (I watch AIBU from a safe distance) but I wanted to say how sorry I am that you have lost your daughter. I won't begin to imagine how you are feeling but I think you have every right to feel furious with the ridiculously lame and thoughtless comments of the women you mention. I agree with many posters that we have a rubbish attitude to death and to the bereaved in this country. My father died three years ago and, while it is of course not really comparable to the loss of your child, I appreciated it if people just said 'I don't really know what to say but I am sorry and I'm thinking of you.' That is really NOT hard to say, however 'awkward' someone feels.

Some people need to get over themselves and think of others' feelings over their own!

I don't think anything you think or feel at the moment could be considered unreasonable.

I am so sorry that your daughter died.

It is crappy that people can be so thoughtless and brush it off as meaning well. You should not be expected to make allowances for anyone.

Sassy- I am so so sorry that you have lost your precious daughter, you have every right to feel angry, frustrated, furious, whatever you are feeling right now!

My 19 month old niece died 5 years ago, and SIL has had some very insensitive comments to deal with- "She is in a better place" What place could possibly be better than in her mummy and daddies arms?
"At least you have xxxx" SIL had her Dd2 only 8 weeks after Dd1 died, she didn't want just one she wants them both.
People really do not know what to say sometimes, they don't mean to be insensitive, they are just people.

5 years on her grief has changed, at first she couldn't bear to return home with out her Dd, she wanted to move house, after a time she found comfort in being where her Dd had been and lived and been at her happiest.

She still now has 'dips' low times where she cannot face the world, those are becoming farther apart as time goes on.

SIL still to this day would rather people acknowledge her daughter than ignore the fact that she died, that hurts her more.

Again I am so sorry for your pain, and I truly wish you some peace in your future.. x

'Small gestures, bad and good, punch high above their weight. '

This line will stay in my head when I ever have any contact with someone who has been bereaved.

I'm so so sorry SS.

My circumstances are very different as my DS2 was stillborn but I do remember the anger at stupid, insensitive comments very well. I rembember getting told to "make allowances" for people when I'd tell my parents/friend something someone had said that hurt me - and I'd want to scream that I was the one with a dead baby so THEY should be making fucking allowances for ME. But no, I was the one that was being unreasonable to even be upset.

Whatever you feel is reasonable and don't let anyone tell you different.