is this a reasonable amount to live on?

[ilovehens]

Or would it be classed as a small amount?

£20,280 (net) for a family of four - 2 adults and 2 children under 12.

This is after small housing costs.

Just want opinions really.

Slug

"We" don't pay more for lawyers than lawyers.

Companies and private individuals who need legal services pay for lawyers. The taxpayer pays for teachers. So it's not like the same people are paying for both and deciding the relative merits.

If taxpayers paid both lawyers and teachers, you would probably see lawyers being paid less so as to be more equal with lawyers.
(Indeed I believe lawyers who work in the public sector are usually paid not much more than teachers - and probably about the same once you take into account the difference in hours/annual leave etc.)

lawyers who work in legal aid are paid much less than teachers. A trainee solicitor working in a legal aid firm can expect around £20k per year in London. A newly qualified solicitor in a legal aid firm can expect around £25k, a partner in a legal aid firm can expect around £35k - £45k. The tax payer does pay for some lawyers - but don't worry, they don't pay very much for them!

In answer to your OP I think that would be plenty to live on!

(Just to add that we live on less than that after housing costs, and still manage to pay for DS1's piano lessons and DD's riding lessons, plus holidays etc)

I wish we had more than that

fathersday, the starting salary for a lecturer in London is £17,000. Still less than lawyers.

Replying to Xenia I did not know how much I would earn when I trained to be a teacher. It did not matter to me, I just wanted to teach. I suppose Xenia is right and I only have myself to blame .

Yes Katy, you should have been down to the library and finding that one particular book that would tell you what people earn. And you should have had the foresight to know that it was really really important. And then binned what you were good at and enjoyed in order to earn shedloads. Wishing you had a bit more income is a very different thing from making it your fault for choosing a (relatively) low paid job. I'm glad I was naive about money too. My (doctor) father contributed to that too I'm afraid by telling his children that as long as they earnt enough to support themselves then we should do what we thought would make us happy. And he had experience of both sides of the argument, fairly low income home, relatively lucrative career(where he chose not to do private practice because of the impact on his family, despite the extra income) Shame on him.

Xenia: Having got back from work ( - yeap, some of us do a real day's work!) can I just point out, that teaching is a pretty good profession in that

a) it is really intellectually stimulating working with intelligent young people, and having the chance to be creative on a daily basis.

b)the holidays are great!

c) while the pay isn't huge, you can get yourself into the private sector if you want and get yourself free accommodation, meals, plus all sorts of other perks including very cheap school fees for your children if you believe they need to be in a private school. It's a ticket to a very comfortable life style should you choose

d) damn good pension

People that work with children are highly valued, but ordinary individuals are paying for childcare out of earned income and many simply cannot afford to pay more. It's market forces that decide which professions are paid what.

I actually don't think I am badly paid tbh and as violet said the holidays are great and the pension is better.

I actually think I should have checked what I was going to earn and I would advise my dd to do the same.

As much as I enjoy my job I don't think I woudl advise my dd to go into teaching. But I am finding things hard at the moment and maybe I would say different on another day.

I agree with little and Xenia, GCSE students need to be given decent career advice to consider whether doing what they love will earn them 20k or 250k.

You could say any child these days who doesn't look it up on line has only themselves to blame but having got 3 of mine through the teenage years some need more guidance than others but that's guidance on what suits them. I repeat I have no agenda that every child must earn over £200k a year or something. I want them to enjoy the work they do.

I think I still have a chart about pay. I wanted to buy an island when I was a child which is something I did when I was older and I did look at what you needed to pay to buy desert islands. My chart from those days assumed you kept 100% of what you earned, paid no tax and had no housing or food expenses (!) but it did show the difference in salaries between teachers, doctors, others etc.

And some people in many jobs aren't very good at them and don't get paid much and some are super heads on over £100k a year in some schools so teaching isn#t always worse paid than some supposedly other better jobs. Some teachers have set up educational companies and sold them off . it's just that in some career like a vicar say you know you will never really earn very much whereas in others the pay in general tends to be better.

careers advice is imo flawed. Or was, I appreciate has moved on. Mine was all about what subjects gave you most options. Flawed because you have no options for happiness if you end up taking subjects just because of openings in careers. Simialar with money. Great to have the job you love paying more, no argument but not great if you choose something you end up not enjoying because of it. Careers advice would be dangerous if it focussed too much on money.

agree with little. was all about 'options' for me. did maths english and history, my faves' give me better 'options', apparently, than what exactl ?? maths geog, physics or anyhting else? what aload of shit. what good is that? options for 'what' exactly ?
left having no idea what i wanted, where i was going, or anything. off to uni to study something useless. ended up doing something totally different. which i am fine with. pays o.k. and is easy.
anyone know if its got any better recently.
actually i think you need to talk money. what will this pay. is that enough ? to give me the life i want. will i be happy doing this ? what sacrifices etc and how ambitious am I ? do I want not to see my kids but be earning 275k ? thats how much the directors earn minimum, where i work. is that what YOU want ?

its not all about money. but lets be honest, money does play a large part in our lives. can both allow you and prevent you from doing many many things in life. and thus needs to be considered. as part of careers advice aswell.

Ha yes, I remember 'options' at school. Complete tripe. I really do hope it's better for teenagers today.

My chosen options were (maths, English alraeady a given)

Physics, Chem, Bio, French, Hidtory and Geog.

I was made to take

Human Bio, History, Typing, Child Development, Textiles, French

My friend has just accepted a palce at that school for her children and the same teachers are still there. There's no way I woudl ever subject my boys to the bigotry I had from my teachers and I can't imagine I am the only person out there whose choices were dictated to them on the basis that i;d probably have a child at 16 and would need to sew, look after them and maybe get a job as a clerk if I worked hard/

I had my first at 26 and am studying for an MA.

Oh I know I am bitter but choices aren't any use unless they are made with guidance and respect.

In teh end my degree subject wasn't even something tehy offered (RE) despite having got 90% in it thrid year exams: dropped on curriculum in favour of typing. Thank goodness they cannot do that now,

But actually it's about lifstyle - so if they (creers teachers)talked about hours, stress levels, holiday etc then it might be worth considering. Problem is most o the people wh, if you're lucky, come and talk about their career aren't going to labour the down sides - makes people wonder why you chose it then! Then I might consider guiding my children to consider a broad package of what maes a job satisfying and manageable. Xenia's pay is too nrrow. DH earns not a fortune but has thirteen weeks a year to be at very worst flexible about when he works and in actual fact most of those weeks off. And never has stress of what will be happening at work when he's away.

Pay is one factor only. Dont' forget if you earn what i do you can pay someone to do a lot of the dull house stuff - I don't really touch washing much, don't put it away, rarely clean because I earn enough to ensure my time is spent wit chidlren not chores,. So don't assume high pay must mean you don't see your children. I work for myself. i can do as I like in my 40s. It's great but if I were on £10 an hour it would be completely different.

I think it might have been on here or elsewhere someone said - went round local comp - career posters were nurses, plumbers etc, Went to local selective private school - accountancy, surgeons, dentistry.

Children only know the options presented to them by others. I think if you can give them role models in all sorts of areas then they find it easier to decide what to do. One of my older 3 has no idea what to do. It's certainly not easy for anyone.

They need back up palns too.

My cousins- both straight A students, extra curricular etc etc- both failed to get aplces at med school (I understand wrt to cousin 1 and his personality but certainly not couisn 2 who had been helping at a lcoal hospital for along time and had a great reference).

Theya imed high but now what? Cosuin one had a back up, cousin 2 is basically sat there stunned and not kwnoing where to ehad next.

(State grammar- very well thought of)

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7832336/Half-of-schools-fail-to-offer-good-education.htm l
Not doing that good of a job, the schools are According to this report....

Well parents need that raw data so they don't send their clever child toi a school like my local one which gest 34% AC and GCSE. But if you're failing because you have most children with an IQ of 100 and plenty under and 20% with special needs I am not sure anyone would accept a school is failing if those children don't get high exam results. I also look for overall education at schools for my children, outside just exams, hobbies, ethos, skills for life etc etc

"The change comes after the Government reformed inspection criteria in September, placing a greater emphasis on exam results as the best way to measure standards at schools.

Inspectors now spend twice as much time monitoring lessons and schools must analyse their own strengths and weaknesses before they are visited.

Under-performing schools are inspected more frequently than before, while the very top institutions are less likely to be visited by inspectors. "

Research the schools available to you, be honest about your children's intelligence, skills and interests and encourage them in every way possible. Continue to provide support, and help them to access specialist support when it comes to University applications, and careers too.

Most importantly - have aspirations yourself. Children learn best by what they see modelled around them, not by being told 'Do as I say, not do as I do'. If children see that mothers and fathers can have interesting, fulfilling careers, that is probably the best education for them in terms of making their own decisions about work. And of course, a real education is about so much more than exam results and salary - if you model good, positive relationships too, then your children stand a better chance of forming positive relationships themselves - all really important stuff both emotionally and financially.

Good post Xenia.

Our local comp has top exam results forr state schools in oura rea. They also did a survey and foudn that 90% of the children get home tuition from a specialist tutor, and the few SEN famillies I know are having a horrid time (because a good friend can't get her foot- taller - than - her autistic son to school before 11am she faces court soon)

DS2 won't get teh tuitoion but he will benefit from teh extracurricular stuff, generally high aspirations, good levels of behaviour.

Whilst ds1 wis going we hope to a school with less great exam results but a specialism in his form of ASD. Not a wonderful high scorer but exactly what he needs toa ctually survive comp.

You have to look beyoind the exams resuylts (of course at them too) and see the wider picture.