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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Pedants' safe-house

423 replies

oldbutgold · 09/06/2010 07:39

In view of the strong feeling expressed towards inveterate error-spotters (aka passive-aggressive bullies/pedants/twats etc) what about a thread for all the spelling errors/grammatical mistakes seen stricly outside MN in RL?
Like journalist Keith Waterhouse who was president of the AAA - campaigned throughout his career for the Abolition of the Abhorrent Apostrophe.
Spotted by self recently:

Ladie's hairdressers (in town)
Childrens' Society (on BBC)
10 items or less (everywhere)

OP posts:
Quattrocento · 09/06/2010 22:27

I saw one tonight (on MN so not strictly in the spirit of the thread) which is charming and quite existential if you give it some thought

"A waist of time"

Certainly my waist is bearing all the marks of its 43 years.

edam · 09/06/2010 22:48

Nonno, can you give us the source? Would be interested to see. I suspect the use of the apostrophe to denote plurals of single letters or numbers or acronyms is old-fashioned - someone cited an OED answer earlier on, and Lynne Truss, suggesting that was the case - that style has moved on. Makes sense to me as I was training in the 90s and every style guide I ever read says it is CDs NOT CD's. CDs makes far more sense.

edam · 09/06/2010 22:49

at a waist of time btw, shall have to remember that one!

NonnoMum · 09/06/2010 23:07

edam dr.grammar.org

But too upset at the thought of someone pissing in the punchbowl.

On the Latin/Greek plurals - what is the plural of focus?

OrientCalf · 09/06/2010 23:13

gah have remembered another

'I can't bare it'

ArsMamatoria · 09/06/2010 23:32

The plural of 'focus' (originally meaning 'fireplace' or 'hearth') is 'foci'.

OurLadyOfPerpetualSupper · 09/06/2010 23:35

I agree that any should be treated as a singular; I wonder if any (one) of the rooms is empty, as opposed to I wonder if the rooms are empty.

It is a bit awkward, though - probably better to say I wonder if there are any empty rooms. Or something.

edam · 09/06/2010 23:36

I'm sure the University of Northern Iowa is a fine institution, but not sure I'd hold them as the final authority on the use of the English language, especially as American English is quite different from actual English.* This is a nation who went for 'color' and 'center' because 'colour' and 'centre' is too hard for people to deal with...

(*Am feeling tired and grumpy and object to saying UK English - it's like saying English English. Bloody ridiculous. The Yanks don't call people American Americans to distinguish them from African Americans or Irish Americans, do they?)

edam · 09/06/2010 23:37

(Spot the mistake in that post... oops!)

ArsMamatoria · 09/06/2010 23:38

Though I do agree with ElusiveMoose re. the plurals of Greek/Latin words.

On the other hand, Cole Porter uses 'hippopotami' to wonderful effect in 'The Cocotte'...

Ahhh, and there's another - people confusing 'effect' with 'affect'.

Snobear4000 · 09/06/2010 23:41

Crikey, this thread has grown.

Loose for lose. Terrible, terrible. Agreed.

In other countries the cashpoint is called the ATM (Automated Teller Machine), and people regularly refer to them as "ATM Machines".

I am surprised not to have read anything pedantic yet on the indiscriminate use of quotation marks. I see this particularly outside food retailers, where there may be a sign advertising "Hot Chips" or "Full English". I always pointlessly torture myself by wondering who may have famously uttered the word "sandwitches" (sic).

WellMeantHellBent · 09/06/2010 23:43

There is a gym called WOLFSLAIR advertised at MMA fights, the bloody violence is actually not as sickening as that!

Can't work out if it should be
WOLF'S LAIR
WOLF SLAYER
OR
WOLVES' LAIR

aaaaargh!

edam · 09/06/2010 23:45

As do Flanders & Swann in the Hippopotamus song, ArsMama.

Snobear, I edit so many ruddy reports, written by professional people dripping with letters after their name, who sprinkle quote marks around as if they are afraid to admit anything is their actual opinion. Sometimes their copy reads as if they are gently-reared Victorian spinsters terrified of hideous new phrases. At other times it gives the effect of sneering. None of this is intended, I am sure.

Snobear4000 · 09/06/2010 23:53

Ooh, Edam... I am going to try quoting "words" randomly to see if it "comes across" as sneering.

Great Scott, it does! What a top trick.

fryalot · 09/06/2010 23:53

spotted on the front of an ice cream van: "Daves Ices"

on side of the same van: "Dave's Ices"

on other side of same van: "Daves' Ices"

on back of van "Dave's Ice's"

I think they thought at least one of them HAD to be correct!

TooBusyByHalf · 10/06/2010 00:01

I'm a lawyer and a pedant, so can I add judgement for judgment, please?

OrientCalf · 10/06/2010 00:19

Squonk, I'd have been tempted to get a marker pen and write 'Very Good ' on the correct one

oldbutgold · 10/06/2010 07:14

Edam - the Americans use past tenses for words like 'dive' so it becomes 'dove'. I know there are others but my brain is having a day off.
Also the use of 'enervate' to mean fill with energy when it means the opposite.
And what about 'these (or those) ones'? Surely 'these' or 'those' should be sufficient.

OP posts:
Bucharest · 10/06/2010 08:16

LunaticFringe and Orientcalf Thanks for the Shelley clarification. I shall take great delight in informing the other teacher. (I might elaborate the truth a bit and tell her you are his long lost relatives)

Re the trailing prepositions, the example way back is a phrasal verb (pick up) where a preposition is added to a simple verb to add something to its meaning. They stem from old English, although each one will have a Latin-based counterpart (think go down v descend) That's why they are considered "inferior" to the more formal Latiny ones.

They're a bloody 'mare for my Italian students, in terms of meaning and syntax, in that some can have the direct object put in the middle, and some can't. (the example "pick up" can be divided, whereas "come up" (the sun came up) can't.)

Bill Bryson's book on the English language is pretty damn good, and he makes the point that US English could actually be seen as more correct as it's the English taken over by the Mayflower lot and absorbed by the native population and hasn't been adapted as much as UK English.

I worry a lot about the English language, I really do. I don't think anywhere else in the world would you get this - almost pride- in being rubbish at something that you seem to find in the UK. "I'm crap at English, I'm rubbish at spelling". As if it's a good thing.

My favourite most recent experience was last summer when a recently qualified PGCE teacher wrote some reports which I had to collate. Collate after having re-written to get rid of all the "could of worked harder" and "should of finished all his homework".

redredwhine · 10/06/2010 08:23

This thread is bit like those 12-step programmes where you have to stand up and say 'My name's Red and I'm a pedant.'
(Hope I'm not offending anyone here - meant to be light-hearted). Anyway, I am, a grammatical pedant I mean. Such a relief to 'come out' and be among like minds.

StealthPolarBear · 10/06/2010 08:29

Snobear, I think it was on another similar thread where someone mentioned they had seen a "meat" sandwich.
Not only could the type of meat not be specified, but the word meat in quotes implies "well that's what we're calling it, anyway"

StealthPolarBear · 10/06/2010 08:30

shouldn't this thread be in pedants' corner?

Bucharest · 10/06/2010 09:03
OrientCalf · 10/06/2010 09:32

interesting Bucharest - I have noticed that French friends who have spoken English for years often still struggle with prepositions like that (and don't get them started on the whole "on the train" thing, which sounds to them like you're sitting on top of the train)

One of my favourite things are zeugmas like this:

'And he said, as he hastened to put out the lights, the wine, his cigar and the cat'

redredwhine · 10/06/2010 09:33

Could have been worse - could have been a 'meet' sandwich.