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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Pedants' safe-house

423 replies

oldbutgold · 09/06/2010 07:39

In view of the strong feeling expressed towards inveterate error-spotters (aka passive-aggressive bullies/pedants/twats etc) what about a thread for all the spelling errors/grammatical mistakes seen stricly outside MN in RL?
Like journalist Keith Waterhouse who was president of the AAA - campaigned throughout his career for the Abolition of the Abhorrent Apostrophe.
Spotted by self recently:

Ladie's hairdressers (in town)
Childrens' Society (on BBC)
10 items or less (everywhere)

OP posts:
MrsBadger · 09/06/2010 19:43

stealth, perhaps my problem with 'k for knife' was phonic rather than strictly pedantic...

Habbibu · 09/06/2010 19:44

It's not as much fun as it sounds, sings, as I recall. Hang on a mo; will try and dig something up on it.

Habbibu · 09/06/2010 19:52

OK - fuzzy grammar is an approach that says that rather than there being sharp distinctions between categories, rules, etc, there are matters of degree. I think it's probably true - look at the debate above re count/mass nouns, etc, but in practical terms I think it proved difficult to devise a straightforward means of defining these degrees, and so we're left with rules and endless exceptions.

singsinthebath · 09/06/2010 19:59

Thanks for that. I tried googling it and found a very stuffy textbook on Amazon.

Regarding dialect forms, I agree that they are great in an informal context. But I think the gist of this thread was about grammar and spelling in more formal situations.

OurLadyOfPerpetualSupper · 09/06/2010 19:59

< comes in for a mini but heartfelt rant >

Speaking of schools, I came across an incorrectly placed 'it's' in the brochure of the grammar school my DS was applying to.

I rocked back and forth for a bit, then had to 'phone them and point it out - to which the secretary came back after asking around and said, 'Don't worry, we're aware of that and it's been corrected in the re-print.'

Forward to a few months later at the first PTA meeting; I picked up the new brochure only to find the offending item had been changed to 'its' ' - yes that's i t s apostrophe - doesn't even exist in the English language.

I just hadn't the will to point it out to the Head who by then I'd identified as an oaf in charge of my son's education, and slunk home with a thumping headache.

Thank you for letting me share.

Habbibu · 09/06/2010 20:05

wrt to the BBC/Govt thing; it rather depends on the context. Ask Oxford uses the example of committee - you could say "the committee has agreed", but would you say the committee has taken its seats, or the committee have taken their seats.

That'd be fuzzy grammar, I reckons.

Habbibu · 09/06/2010 20:06

(but the missing ? wouldn't be)

GrumbleBee · 09/06/2010 20:43

I used to walk to work every day past a Spanish resturant with a chalkboard outside advertising their (are you ready?) tapa's.

Every few days (note my restraint!) I would rub the apostrophe off with my thumb and every few days some industrious muppet would chalk it back in.

Please tell me you feel my pain!

CurlyCasper · 09/06/2010 21:03

habbibu it's about clarity in teaching. What hope have our children got if they are being taught one thing and hearing another? There's no harm in playing around with language when you already know the ground rules, but it really winds me up when, for example, children's TV presenters cannot use the language properly. I think there is a big difference between colloquial dialect and bad grammar.

The majority of our language has its commonly accepted rights and wrongs - as anyone who has sub-edited a newspaper will know from the complaints that roll in the minute one of the rules is broken!

There's always room for evolution, of course. And for experimentation. But I'd prefer that it did not get in the way of learning, particularly at primary school age.

Also, there's a vast difference between people using their own dialect or experimenting with language, and sheer ignorance. I think the latter covers most of the issues raised on this thread (unfortunately).

My name is Casper and I am a trained pedant .

P.S. I always recommend the Guardian Style Guide to struggling colleagues. But it's worth remembering that while some rules are widely accepted, a style guide is just that - a guide to the style of writing a particular publication chooses to use. I have struggled with some newspapers' style over the years, but had to use them in the workplace. Thankfully I am not in that business any more, and will no longer have to write "swop" instead of "swap".

CurlyCasper · 09/06/2010 21:05

ourlady - I feel your pain!

BelleDameSansMerci · 09/06/2010 21:08

You see... This is what happens when I have to go into the office for a day. I miss all the fun.

I love all of you for your lovely, pedantic ways which, of course, are the same as mine!

BelleDameSansMerci · 09/06/2010 21:09

I hate swop for swap...

Fibilou · 09/06/2010 21:20

On a blackboard outside a jewellers near my house

"Gold and silver bought - no amount to small"

EthelredOnAGoodDay · 09/06/2010 21:31

Singsinthebath, i noticed the trailing preposition. My parents used to tell me that 'a preposition should never be used to end a sentence with'. Ho ho ho, oh how they we laughed.

I love these threads, but am always terrified in case i make a(n?) howler myself. If i have, please be gentle!

One of my pet peeves, and one which can often be seen here on MN, is plurals being written with 'ys' rather than 'ies'. Grrrrr.

LunaticFringe · 09/06/2010 21:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

EthelredOnAGoodDay · 09/06/2010 21:42

I did see that one Lunatic and your subsequent messages; it never rains but it pours! Never fear, it will probably be me next.

MamaMary · 09/06/2010 21:48

Love this thread!

Have you noticed loads of people now writing 'loose' instead of 'lose' - e.g. trying to 'loose weight'! I've seen it in women's magazines.

Also one of my local school sends a brochure round every year with a section entitled 'Parent's say'. (e.g. Parent's say: This school is great). This parent says - I will not send my child there!

GettinTrimmer · 09/06/2010 21:52

Loose instead of lose is a common one everywhere. It just stands out like a sore thumb!

GettinTrimmer · 09/06/2010 21:54

Cross-posted with MamaMary!

NonnoMum · 09/06/2010 21:54

Not suitable for HVG's.

I heard (somewhere) that abbreviations like this DO take apostrophes.

So perhaps the Highways Agency is correct?

Apostrophes?
"The apostrophe has four main uses:

  1. To show the omission of numbers in such expressions as Christmas '98 or letters in expressions that imitate certain patterns of speech ? finger lickin' good.
  1. To form contractions (I'm, we've, can't, they'll).
  1. To form plurals of single numbers and letters: 'Mary brought home a report card with two A's and two B's.'

(The apostrophe is not needed when letters or numbers appear in groups of two or more: the 1920s, the ABCs, the rule of 78s, two Ph.D.s.)

  1. To form possessives" (Lederer and Dowis, Sleeping Dogs Don't Lay 156).

So am I the most pedanty pedant?

clam · 09/06/2010 22:08

No possessive pronouns (his, hers, yours, its) have apostrophes.

And I hate misuse of lie/lay, as in having a "lay-down." You lay tables and eggs (or at least, hens do ) but otherwise it's only thepast tense of lie, e.g. "I lay down on the bed."

ElusiveMoose · 09/06/2010 22:13

One of my pet hates is when people try to be pedantic but get it wrong. This is particularly irritating (for me as a classicist) when people use what they think are the correct plural forms of Latin/Greek words in order to sound clever (e.g. syllabi, octopi). Not only do I personally think it's silly to insist on 'classical' plurals for words which have effectively become anglicised; but in these cases they are actually wrong (the grammatically correct plurals of these, for example, would be syllabus (with a long U) and octopodes). I take great pleasure in pointing this out.

While we're at it, where do you lot stand on 'any' taking a singular or plural verb? I'm thinking of an example such as: 'I'm going to see whether any of the rooms is/are empty'. I think I'd be right in saying that it should be 'any of the rooms is empty' because 'any' is standing in for 'any one', but it sounds weird. This has bothered me for years .

PortiaNovmerriment · 09/06/2010 22:14

I get irrationally irritated by the misuse of anti-social for unsociable. Not talking to guests at a party is unsociable: pissing in the punch bowl is anti-social.

iloveasylumseekers · 09/06/2010 22:19

I use any... is... - I think any... are... sounds much worse.

Re plurals in Latin/Greek: if in doubt, and I don't know for definite what the plural is, I go for the English plural - -s or -es - for something important I'd have to look it up.

smallorange · 09/06/2010 22:19

I love this thread.

Yes I do shout "fewer" at the television. I thought i was the only one.