to "interfere"

[Fibilou]

DH has been trying to settle DD (4 months) to sleep for the last half hour. She is shrieking at the top of her lungs and is not settling. I know she will settle with me but this always leads to a massive row as DH accuses me of taking over. The way I see it is that the goal is to get DD to sleep in a pleasant manner, not a point scoring exercise and a battle as to who can settle her best.

She is very overtired and his method of trying to settle her does not work (patting her in the cot) but he will not listen to what I tell him to do (take her our and sit her upright against him) he just wants to do it his way.

She sounds as if she is being murdered, no, we will have to have the row cos I can't leave it any longer.

I told him he was pigheaded and that I hated him, don't think we can survive this

Oh dear. You are having a horrendous time.
Both of you.

I don't know what to say... I think you need help if he is saying things like ""if you go up there I will take her and you will never see her again"

Has he ever been violent to you?

No

He is determined that she needs to learn to settle herself. His attitude is "she's half mine so I'll do what I like" and doesn't care that I am with her all day every day and know her inside out. He says he makes none of the decisions - but what decisions are there to make with a 4 month old ?

He wanted to leave her screaming so he could eat his dinner . I cannot bear to look at him right now

Oh dear. I can see both sides, here. He wants to be hands-on with his own child - and he will never be able to do that confidently and competently unless you back off and give him the space to learn how to handle her.

However, his outbursts of anger are unacceptable - childish and quite worrying.

Could you arrange a time away from the house - a meal or drink - and sit down and thrash this out calmly? You may have to compromise a bit - and that might involve not rushing 'to the rescue' every time your DD cries. But equally, he is going to have to start acting like a responsible, grown up father if he wants to be treated and trusted as one.

Oh Fibilou, that is really horrible are you okay? Is she okay?

I have to be honest, if my DP did that I would take DS and leave for the night so that we could both cool down safely, then discuss it in the light of day.

What are you doing now?

Unmumsnety hugs (((())))

Sambuca, I usually let her cry for a minute or so to see if she will settle herself back to sleep, but if she cries more than a few times I know she won't manage on her own and that she needs comforting.

"D" H seems unable to acknowledge the fact that I know DD better than he does as I am with her 24/7

GTPS I am sitting in the living room while DH si sitting with DD. She seems to have stopped grizzling. If I am honest with myself I am afraid of him when he is like this. Part of me thinks he would never hit me but a small bit is never really sure, if he was really angry.

Oh dear - I am sorry he is being such a bastard. I could not stay withsomeone who was so wrapped up in wanting control that he would prevent me from going to my child.

I would think that to get through this (if you want to) you may both need urgent counselling. He has got to be made to see that it is not all about him.

I'm glad you are both okay. I'm not usually one of the people who goes on threads and shouts "leave him, leave him", and I'm not saying you should necessarily leave him, but you really need to sort out this issue ASAP. He should NOT treat you like this. I'm not really into controlled crying, but it doesn't seem to be about that, more about controlling you and DD, which is really not healthy.

Sambuccakelly has a good idea of going to somewhere public to discuss it.

What happens if he unilaterally decides in the future (for example) smacking is the way to deal with your DD drawing on the walls? What happens if your DD in a few years does against what he has said and he reacts to her as he has today to you?

Please make sure you speak to someone you trust in RL about this, maybe your mum or a friend? You should not feel scared in your relationship, and he should know that it is not acceptable, and you will not allow him to behave in this way ever again. That is not to say that his opinion isn't valid, but his way of dealing with the situation is plain wrong.

I hope you can sort it out

Wanted to check he wasn't violent before saying this. I am a firm believer that you can't make grand decisions about a relationship in the first year of your first child's life.. everyone is on edge, it pushes people and relationships to the limit..

However, it sounds like you are both engaging in a bit of a power struggle over this.. and it is important that it is sorted.
I understand that you know that you can settle dd and it is hard to hear her cry.. I also see that he is frustrated that he isn't allowed try to find his own path..

My ds can't settle without me either (6 months). He usually feeds to sleep and obviously dh can't do this. But dh has had many nights trying to settle him. He will scream his lungs out while dh is rocking him in his arms and singing softly to him, both things I use to settle him if not feeding him to sleep. He is with him the whole time and he screams as if there were hot pokers being stuck into him.

Sometimes he will settle almost to sleeping and dh is so pleased and then it starts again.. I don't believe it's what dh is doing, I think ds just wants me there. I can go in and take him from dh and he will just fall asleep on the transfer. It is tremendously hard for dh, like a rejection, and I see this. In the end, I often do take over.. but I don't tell dh what to do while he's crying.

I find it shockingly stressful but so does dh.. and to be fair, ds is not 'crying it out', he just isn't getting a cuddle from mum only.. but I don't think I do have the answer. I think dh is great.. but this is something ds is not taking to..

Ds has to learn so I will not just 'take over' without agreement.. but we have a time limit on the highest pitched cry of 2-3 mins and then I take over. It's a compromise.

Your dh is being an arse but I think you telling him what to do isn't necessarily helpful either and he is feeling useless and powerless as a parent.

But mrsbean78, the difference is that your DH is trying what you normally do, not something completely different, you have obviously discussed it together and both comfortable with wht is going to happen and set the limit of 2-3 min and you are both trying to see the other person's point of view.

I can see it is really hard to want to comfort/settle your child and for the child to want your partner, but the reality is that the primary care giver (usually the mum) knows the child best, and is usually the most comforting presence. They also know the child better, and what will help hem settle. From what other parents have told me, children often change to prefer to be comforted only by their dad when they are a bit older, and that must be really hard too.

DP tried to settle DS today (for about 20 minutes, but of grumbling but no screaming), but he is teething and just did not want to go to sleep for him. I went into the room, sat by the cot and said "shhh, shhh" and he started sucking his thumb and went straight off to sleep. It doesn't mean DS doesn't love his daddy, just that he has spent the last 4 months (and the 9 months before that!) mostly with me, and at the moment, finds me more comforting. DP knows this and knows that DS adores him.

In any case, IMO it is not okay to implement something lke CIO/CC without both parents being comfortable with it,it is not okay to physically stop a mother from going to comfort her screaming child and it is definitely not okay to push your partner in anger.

Yes and no, GTPS.

You are absolutely right that the OP's dh should not be physical and/or agressive towards the OP, regardless of the situation.

However, as the thread has unfolded, it seems that the OP's dh is feeling completely undermined as a carer for his daughter. And little things the OP says suggest she doesn't have huge confidence in what he is doing e.g. he won't listen to her/do it her way/his way isn't working..

I agree with you that developmentally it's probably so much swings and roundabouts - now their dd wants mum, later in her life she might want dad - but I see hints here that this couple are going to pull eachother to pieces rather than see this and work as a team to just get the job done. Maybe he is the driving force in it, maybe not.. but I am conscious that usually these things are a dynamic and while I would in no way condone the type of bad behaviour demonstrated by the OPs partner, I suspect that there are two sides to this story.

You, for example, say "at the moment, [your LO] finds me more comforting. DP knows this and knows that DS adores him." There is a crucial foundation of trust here.. your DP trusts that you trust him as a father, you both understand that this is not a notch on your belt or a black mark in his book and - it seems - you both see this is only temporary and will evolve.

I think I am hearing something different from the OP.. I think that there is more of a value judgement attached to it.. and probably all sorts of other things underpinning this terrible dynamic. A lot of pain, either way.

Urgent counselling was suggested by someone and seems a good idea - but I would be cautious before demonising a man in this situation outright.. I think new babies do fundamentally rock new families to the core and involve huge renegotiation of the relationship and of individual identity, as well as exposing faultlines in the pre-existing relationship. One of the most 'sensitive' new men I know used to kick the door in frustration when his daughter wouldn't stop crying. I remember throwing a book across the room when I had put my ds down for the tenth time one night, got downstairs and into a cuddle with dh and the lights started to go on the monitor.. I think aspects of this situation were probably initially quite normal but the sleep deprivation/frustration and, in this case, one-upmanship is taking over and threatening to destroy this relationship if something doesn't occur to redress the balance ASAP.

Incidentally, my dh isn't doing something we talked about - and I don't tell him how to settle ds. I think partners sometimes have different ways of supporting infants to settle and I just don't think it helps at all when one partner is too quick with the 'helpful' 'oh but he doesn't like that..' or doesn't 'allow' the other partner settle a child for months yet then turns around and belittles them for not knowing what to do when they are finally given an opportunity.

Not saying that is what's happening here but I do think it's possibly more complex than at first meets the eye.

DH isn't trying what I normally do.. he is trying what he normally does, something I have always let him work out for himself.

I am OK but can't stop going over events in my mind and feeling sad

He could be sorry but would never, ever say it. Anyway, he isn't sorry, he thinks I am the one in the wrong

What do I want to do now ? Honestly I want to leave. But that would mean breaking up our family before she's even old enough to realise that she has one. I have nowhere to go (I could go to Mum and Dads for a while but couldn't stay there permanently), I would have no money.

Most of the times he isn't a total wanker like he was last night but there have been lots of times since I've been pregnant that there are just little things that make me doubt whether he really loves me. When I was pregnant he refused to change the cat litter trays (because he had been told that he had to, he is very stubborn and pigheaded when someone tells him what to do) - not in so many words but I would keep asking him to change them and he would complain that I was nagging him or say "I'll do them tomorrow". We have 6 cats, they go outdoors but because where we live is all paved gardens they have to have the trays. So I ended up having to change the trays as he kept leaving them so long.

He constantly infers that I live some sort of life of riley on maternity leave despite the fact that he never lifts a finger in the house and has a home-made dinner every evening. The house is like a show home, I bake my own bread and cakes etc. He never shows any gratitude for anything I do and has never asked if I am OK snce the birth

And he criticises the way I do the housework

And everyone else is always wrong - he always knows better than everyone else

He works long hours (because he can't bring himself to turn down overtime) and does 2 casual jobs - which means he is always very tired. This makes him irritable, aggressive and to be honest, totally intolerable to live with.

He has a weeks' holiday this week, I think it will be make or break time.

'he's had her for several days out'

that just screams at me that this has got to 2 parents loving dd not working as a family. It isn't about taking turns it's about working together.

I do hope you can sort it. I agree some coucelling could help or maybe you could go to your m+d for a few days just to let the water settle?

Best of luck hang in there.

MrsBean - just wanted to copy the piece below from the OP in case you missed it:

"the thing is, Diddl, he does do loads. He's had her for several whole days out, he takes her swimming once a week, whenever he is off (which is not often) I make sure that we have a clear diary so he sees her as much as possible. As I said earlier in the thread I have tried him to get him to do playtime before her bath + bed - but he is always too busy playing on the computer to do it. When he is home he always gives her her bedtime bath and I leave him to it. Whatever he does I let him get on with it - he takes her sometimes on his mornings off down the allotment for several hours so I can have some time off (ie do the housework). "

That in no way sounds to me like the OP is trying to make sure he does everything her way or not letting him have time alone with their DD.

Fibilou - I would be sad too. And furiously angry tbh.

He sounds like a pig-headed stubborn control freak with a temper. Something will give. It has to. Can you sit down and talk calmly to him? He may well be tired and stressed and feeling the burden of being a Dad. This in NO way means that he can treat you like he does. The cat litter tray is pretty indicative of things. Did he KNOW that it was dangerous for you to do it? He sounds selfish and totally pig-headed.

I think you have to think about what you can live with. As someone else said what happens when DD starts not doing what he wants? What happens if you have another child?

sorry lady x posted with you

At your first post about the sleeping, I must say, I was on your DH's side. I have been undermined by my DH and MIL, especially with regard to sleeping, and I hate it. If I need help, I will go and ask for it; I don't want a Greek chorus of tragic faces clustered around the door, stimulating DS and making him think he is more upset than he actually is. I also think that the person who didn't get up to see to him has a right and responsibily to try to rest; after all, it will be morning soon enough. Thankfully, this sort of undermining has become infrequent.

However, when you started to talk about what else is going on, my feelings swung right back to you. It is horrible to be accused of lazing about on maternity leave, horrible to criticise your housework, horrible to get so pigheaded about his way of doing things that you all suffer. You all to talk this out with an outsider, as neither of you is happy and it is probably impossible to give what is necessary, in the compromise you need to reach, without another person (why should either of you risk a gesture which the other might accept, without offering something in his/her turn? no, it needs an outsider's intervention.)

Don't panic that it's over. Four months is very young, and you're finding your feet in a new web of relationships: mother-baby, father-baby, mother-father, DW-DH. All my mum friends and I experienced strain in our marriage/partnership after the birth, but no-one I know has yet broken up over that (our DC are all over 2).