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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the title Ms has connotations

89 replies

msripley · 28/05/2010 20:04

  • when it should really be the equivalent of Mr?

I've filled in an application form for something which needs to be approved by a government department.

I put my title, as I always do, as Ms. I've always regarded it as the female equivalent of Mr.

I'm married but decided to keep my maiden name. Supporting ID documents I sent with the application included my marriage certificate (showing that my name at marriage is the same as it is on the application form).

But a query came back asking me to confirm my surname was the same as it always had been "because you have ticked 'Ms' box for your title."

WTF is that all about? Is Ms regarded as unmarried? Mrs Ripley would've been my mother, not me. I ticked the box on the form to say I was married (which was a requirement of the application process), but in general, if it's not relevant, I regard my marital status as my business alone.

OP posts:
YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 28/05/2010 20:07

It's some up before. Certain bodies have it as meaning "married but divorced" which is a load of crap. I always fill out both boxes with my maiden name. Call them if there's still a prob.

Original poster
msripley · 28/05/2010 20:11

I don't think there will be a problem, and the daft thing is, if they'd checked the form and the supporting ID properly, it was obvious my name at birth was the same at marriage and is the same now.

There was clearly an automatic assumption being made - just as when I first married my bank told me I would need to write to tell them I hadn't changed my name. Funny they didn't want dh to do the same.

OP posts:
HecateQueenOfWitches · 28/05/2010 20:13

Is it because they need to be clear that they have every name you have ever been known by so that they can do a background check on you?

But then if you were Miss you could be divorced or changed your name and if you were mrs it could be your umpteenth name change.

So I've changed my mind. I don't know.

What they should have is a section saying list all the names you have been known by, if it's needed.

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 28/05/2010 20:17

That's exactly it Hecate! All they need is a "list all names" section, and this would be a moot point.

Original poster
msripley · 28/05/2010 20:19

Yes, they did need to verify my correct ID - and I'd expect that to be done.

It was the query over the title I'd used that seemed a bit bizarre in 2010 - I suspect Youknownothing's explanation that Ms is regarded as 'married but divorced' might be right.

They clearly couldn't cope with 'married woman, calls herself Ms and hasn't changed her name' - even though that's what loads of people do - although clearly not in the 1950s where some organisations/people seem to be stuck.

OP posts:
HecateQueenOfWitches · 28/05/2010 20:19

Indeed. And they should. They do not need marital status.

wahwah · 28/05/2010 20:24

I had a run in with the CRB over this as the presumption was that I was divorced and had changed my name! I was enraged. Got round it by calling myself Madam.

So yanbu.

TooPragmatic · 28/05/2010 20:27

in the UK: lots of connotations. Using the term is a big political statement, it seems.

North America: none

wahwah · 28/05/2010 20:28

Oh and Dh tried to get his married name on his passport ( we double barrel and change it from
our father's names as documents need renewing) but the post office wouldn't accept it- he had to change his name by deed poll, which he did. Unfortunately it was too late for his passport.

mamas12 · 28/05/2010 20:29

I don't see the need to use titles at all.
FGS which one gives you the discount then?

Fennel · 28/05/2010 20:39

I've had run-ins 3 separate times with the CRB people over this. Each time they phone to see if I'm married cos I've ticked Ms, and each time I say "that question wasn't on the form" and refuse to answer it. I can't see that they can ask women that question and not men without it being sex discrimination. And they huff and puff a bit but they haven't refused my crbs.

v annoying. as if I'd be too stupid to know if I'd changed my name or not.

and loads of married women I know have kept their names, and lots of non-married women change their names to their partners anyway. so it's all a bit meaningless.

sapell3 · 28/05/2010 20:40

YANBU. I think it is discriminatory if they do not also ask a "Mr" whether he has ever changed his surname (which I assume does sometimes happen).

I agree that a "list all names" section for both men and women would solve the problem.

trixie123 · 28/05/2010 20:47

when I was younger a 50ish colleague made a big fuss about this, saying all female staff should be Ms as marital status was no-one's business and I thought "Oh FFS" but having now got divorced myself I sort of know where she was coming from. It does seem to be putting a big sign over your head saying "divorced/lesbian" so I went back to Miss maiden name. As time has passed, new people I meet don't know i was married and its nice not to have to explain. just one of those things. and don;t get me started on CRB. Dave, Nick - you want to save money, let people use the ir current CRB certificate valid for say 12months in different orgnaisations instead of having to fill in the form every frigging time!

edam · 28/05/2010 20:50

that kind of thing really irritates me. I hate this daft myth that Ms somehow indicates marital status. The fact that it doesn't is the whole ruddy point! SOME people just seem to be unable to cope with a form of address that doesn't tell them who you are shagging.

msms · 28/05/2010 20:52

Where people try to insist that all women are "Miss" until they become "Mrs", I'd suggest that all men should be "Master" until they become "Mr".

MrsDinky · 28/05/2010 20:55

I am Ms Maiden name - have not so far (10 years married) had any problems with officialdom, just with my friends and relatives. My MIL phoned this week to ask what surname she should put on a cheque to me, I told her it was maiden name, as I do not use DH's surname, she sent the cheque but addressed the envelope to Mrs DHSurname, aarghhh. My friends and most of my family do it too, drives me nuts.

BelleDameSansMerci · 28/05/2010 20:55

I'm single and I always use Ms. As stated here, my marital status is nobody's business!

Sadly, YANBU but you should be!

TiggyD · 28/05/2010 20:57

The Whitestripes' singer Jack White took his wife's name. He used to be Jack Gillis. Not as cool is it?

PrivetDancer · 28/05/2010 21:04

I always assumed Ms means you are single but don't want to be thought of as a Miss as that sounds rather girly.

So does it actually mean 'I don't want to reveal my marital status' then? Why is it a secret?

BariatricObama · 28/05/2010 21:05

fuck the connotations. i have always been ms and remain ms.

MadamDeathstare · 28/05/2010 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

edam · 28/05/2010 21:09

Tiggy, that's pretty impressive. Well done to Mr White.

Privet - Ms is the equivalent of Mr. No-one treats men with suspicion for not automatically declaring whether they are married or not.

If someone actually needs to know whether I'm married, they can ask me.

sanielle · 28/05/2010 21:10

Because private dancer.. It is not relevant.

Men don't have to state their marital status to people through their title, why should women?

Also I do believe people treat you differently as a miss, mrs, or a ms.. and they shouldn't.

lisianthus · 28/05/2010 21:10

YANBU. What edam and BariatricObama said.

They are tools.

edam · 28/05/2010 21:22

Veering off topic slightly, I was quite amused to see a male colleague dealing with someone trying very obviously to flirt with him in a meeting. Poor man obviously felt a bit got at and started playing with his wedding ring. He was almost waving it in front of his face trying to ward her off, bless him.