in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

if I woke up tomorrow and there were no benefits it would be back to the life I had just over 10yrs ago, shite.......and I'd be fucked and on the street with my DS's.

Tbh folks I am disappointed in the benefit bashers here. This was not meant to descend into that becausde we all have times where we need help unless we are bloody fortunate.

I am angry that anyone would judge T&C while not knowing all she has been through over the past few years. If she has to claim benefits for now until things improve then so be it. T&C is NOT the person that these cuts should be hitting when they come. Sadly becsuse she is lumped together with anyone else claiming benefits then she WILL be affected and that's crap.

Personally I'd be more interested in how much revenue the Govt loses every year to tax dodgers and avoidance schemes. Bet it's a similar amount to what's paid in benefits but then single parents and those on benefits are easy to bash.

I am so fortunate because I have a job I love AND have time to be with my DS who has ASD and ADHD. It's part-time but pays just enough to keep a roof over my head. The type of job (ie hours and good pay) I do is just not out there for the majority of people.

I feel for you I really do but I honestly think benefits will be reduced with inflation and however shite it is now, you need a plan B urgently.

but what should plan B be?!

You come up with a a plan b that is manageable and doable, and Im sure we will follow it.

I also think its a shame that this has descended into some pretty nasty name calling.

And I don't think any right minded person would argue that benefits shouldn't exist. They should be there to provide their original purpose - as a safety net for people in their hour of need. Unfortunately the whole system has become such a mess, that some people do use them as a lifestyle choice, and some people do play the system and work fewer hours so that they can take advantage of top ups, rather than doing a full working week.

And as mamatomany ways, things will change, so it really doesn't matter a jot what people are arguing about on here. The government will reform and simplify the system so that people who can work will have a greater incentive to work. Its either got to come about by forcing employers to massively hike up wages (unlikely) or by re-aligning the welfare system.

actually it's not so shite, it's bloody demoralising and soul destroying being here and it's shite when people judge and throw me into the "went out and got pg to get a council house and don't see why I should ever work" group . But I'm lucky that I cam onto benefits with a good set of budgeting skills (feeding 4 and buying nappies for £15-20 a week 5yrs ago helped with that), and very little debt to be paying off.

I can also cook from scratch and make up a meal from nothing (again that was 5yrs ago, and just over 10yrs ago when i lost my job and had no benefits to support us........ok a diet of christening cake for breakfast, plain bread for lunch and mince.......just mince, no sauce/tomatoes/rice anything just cooked mince isn't great - but it kept us alive for 4 months).

It's going to be shite for everyone, not just those on benefits, those on low/middle incomes are going to feel it too. I could cope with a freeze on benefits (which will be a reduction due to inflation as you say) - not easily, but we'll have to manage but an actual cut - well I'm not sure what I'd do.

well tbh violet - although there are a few on this thread that disagree with wher eI'm coming from (you included) there is only one person on this thread that has really judged.

sungirltan - i am in north devon in a small, countryish town. Yeah she did own her flat as my real dad committed suicide 10 months after she got a mortgage when i was 4 and a half.

tocattonfudge - this is not just about you I am talking about everyone in the country. I am saying that in order to sort out the mess of the country then people will have to do stuff even if it means not seeing their kids, making cuts etc. I understand you may have had a hard time but so have lots of has and it has to happen in order for the country to stay afloat. I understand what its like trust me, I have been through more than enough but it had to be done.

no - but you made it about me when you said I was lazy and had a disgraceful attitude.

'no - but you made it about me when you said I was lazy and had a disgraceful attitude.'

Well as you said you didnt want to work afternoons, evenings, weekends and the bit about the fucked up club you can see how I took that the wrong way. It was the way you wrote it and now you have expanded on the facts.

Riven - Again I would in no way expect you to have to work at all.

yes but that's kind of my point, why should everyone have to expand on the facts? People shouldn't have to justify to anyone other than the benefits departments as to why they can't work/can't work certain hours.

DanJarmouse - I have my plan B I aint sharing it because it'll be survival of the fittest if it truly goes tits up and I tend for my family to be on the winning side.
The fact is I will scrub toilets if that's what it takes to keep my family where they are now, nevermind off the streets.
My friend worked before school in the breakfast club and after school club so she saw her children, got paid and increased her skills when her husband fcuked off. Where there's a will there's a way.

TC the only time you have to justify is when you keep putting all the twists and turns of your life on these threads and getting involved, if you don't want to justify then don't it's not rocket science but it's like you can't stop picking the scab, Riven is the same.

'Where there's a will there's a way'

I do agree with this though. I used to have to work the adult telephone lines when we got short. I dont like it but I used to have to do it when we were skint and I would go back to it if I have to.

I know someone who works two days a week when she has 2 children in school fulltime - she is at home the other two days. She was advised by her divorce lawyer to do her minimum 16hrs a week and she would be entitled to maximum tax credits and all sorts of other benefits.

To me, she should be working all the time her children are at school in order to reduce her benefit income. She is healthy, runs a car and has a tiny mortgage on a rather large house. Where is her sense of self-respect? Her desire to provide for herself?

toccata - I don't think anyone should have to justify on here why they don't want to work certain hours, but the issue that's thorny I think is that people have different 'thresholds' of what they feel is acceptable.

Some of my acquaintances laughed at me, for instance, when I was going out to work for no net gain, because I paid two sets of nursery fees. They said they wouldn't get out of bed for less than a net gain of a few hundred a month. And on the money thread on here, at the moment, someone is asking, 'How many years should I work for £1.50 an hour?' Some people wouldn't do it; some do. Some people are only prepared to accept a job on their doorstep; other people get up early and travel 30 miles. Some people think they're entitled to only work school hours, while other people accept that jobs like that are few and far between, and suck it up and organise and pay for childcare. People have widely varying levels of expectation and levels of what they are prepared to do.

Anyway, the bottom line is, things will get tougher, so there's no point anyone moaning - the country is in for a tough few years economically.

Riven - palmed off is great..........I would love to palm my DS's off right now..........

DS1 did say the other day "I wish we could just go and knock on dad's door".........another year or 2 and I won't be able to stop him as he'll be old enough to be allowed out further than the shop and back on his own .

agree with Riven - it's the generalisations, that anyone living on benefits doesn't want to work, and all have a sense of "entitlement" the stereotypes, they kind of piss you off after a while, espeically when people are being all high and mighty and "I'll NEVER claim benefits"

Exactly my point Fruity - why on earth should someone in that position be getting subsidised by the tax payer to work only 2 days and have 3 weekdays swanning around with her kids in school?! If she's capable of working, she should work a full week rather than actively seek part time work to play the system.

(I guess she may regret her decision though if she spends a long retirement living on a shitty pension though. )

mamanatomy - no, everyone (irrespective of finance) had to have ration books. they were to stop rich people buying up everything that was in short supply and make sure the food etc was evenly distrubuted. they weren't vouchers - you still had to pay for the food/clothes/whatever!!

sunshine - i'm sorry to hear that about your father. whilst i agree that your work ethic is admirable, i do think you are comparing situations which are incomparable. you have been explaning how you worked 60 hours a week - when you you were young and single - it was your choice to do that and ultimately no one suffered but you if you didn't. this is not a fair comparisom with a lone parent unable/choosing not to work due to poor childcare options/v low paid jobs etc.

i hate the othering that goes with the benefit bashing debate. i'm a sw and even i'd find it hard to list that many families i've met who are in the 'plasma telly' catagory. though i've met plenty of familes on benefits who have serious issues which might not be apparent to the naked eye.

you see violet - if I had a partner to pay the bills, and I ended up only earning £1.50 an hour because I paid for childcare out of the rest - I would do it in a shot (apart from nights - would do bar hours - until 3-4am but not actual full nights (as I don't sleep often until then anyhow ), I accept I won't be able to work school hours (family support work tends to be longer than school hours anyhow - and that's what I hope to do at some point in the future once I pick up my degree again and finish it) but I can't accept that it's ok to work hours that means children rarely see a parent at all.

I put on the "yeah I live on benefits" brave face, but actually I hate it, but I'm stuck now, and I just hate the generalisations. I was brought up with a work ethic, always vowed I'd never claim benefits (and we stuck to it as well when we hit the financial shit in 2005 as we felt it was our choice to take the risk of setting up a business so we paid the price.........

although in hindsight we were probably stupid, exH had been paying NI and tax from 3 weeks after moving to the country, and when the business failed we both found work - me on nights, him working afternoon/evening and coming back in time for me to walk out of the door to work for the night, so it wasn't like we'd not paid some taxes in, and weren't planning on paying more back in again after getting help.

Anyhow, I agree with your last line, it's going to get tougher, for everyone, just hate the bickering and point of fingers.

Now I'm off to put my awfull DS's to bed

LOL at the idea that picking up litter could bulk up a CV.