in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

there are a limited pool of "9-5" jobs.....particuarly in this area. Most is shift/earlies/lates/weekends.

Shift/night/weekend/holiday childcare is extremely limited round here, especially for school age children.

And what's wrong with working 20-24 per week?! Jesus, its a damn sight less than most of us, it's hardly going to kill anyone....

......oh I give up, if people want to find a reason not to work, they'll always find one. And their children in their turn.

No Sunshine, you CANT.

Working 16hrs means you lose housing benefit and council tax benefit.

I should know, Im looking into it at the moment. The job I want to apply for is £7.17 per hour, but do I think I stand a chance in hell of getting it - NO.

I dont work simply because I cannot leave my husband in sole charge of our children for more than 2-3hrs as he is on a lot of medication making him prone to black outs/dizzy spells and not forgetting the excruciating pain he has in his knees and back - all topped off with depression.

Such a fun life staying home all day WANTING to be out there working, but not being able to.

Tocca does a FANTASTIC job, a lot of work with the Church and has 3 very gorgeous well mannered boys. Her ex-h is a twunt who couldnt give a flying fuck about them despite living round the corner.

To put 1 boy in full time childcare and wrap-around care for the other two, on top of paying rent and council tax, bills, food, clothes etc would cost MORE than she would earn added with the tax credits etc.

Happymummyofone

'Its also unfair to blame it all on the fathers - not all leave, some women find other men, some have the child in a casual relationship etc. Not all NRP disappear, many contribute to their child regardless of not living in the same household.'

'Children on benefits see that you can still have Sky tv, consoles for xmas all without working and grow up with little or no work ethic. The cylce repeats and the child often goes on to claim themselves.'

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Whilst I agree that not all the blame should be placed squarely on the father's shoulders, it usually takes 2 to procreate, and regardless of whether a woman ends a relationship or her DP ends it, he is after all, still the DC's father, and as such sould support those DC surely.
AFAIC, DC born out of a casual relationship should also be supported by their father's. If men don't wish to take on that responsibility, perhaps they would be wise to use contraception.
It is not the state of the relationship between the mother and the father that is important, it is the welfare of the DC surely.

As for the DC on benefits you are referring to, I am not convinced that the majority of DC whose parents are living on benefits alone have Sky TV or Consoles for Xmas.
I have never met a single parent who once on benefits, can afford these luxuries, yet I have met single parents who's DC have been given these things as a gift. How are we to know if they were gifts or not? Personally I do not wish to know

Well said Violethill.

20-24 hours a week is still very little, children are at school for 30 hours anyway. Nobody "deserves" to be paid to stay home with no actual valid reason for not working.

'Actually, if you want to talk facts, your child is far more likely to be 'fucked up' as one poster so elegantly put it, by having a NPR who doesn't give a shit about them, or by being raised in a family where no parent works.

Time to wake up and get real. Life is going to get tougher for many people - the country has run out of money, and needs to get the economy healthy, doesn't matter whether people like it or not - it's gonna happen!!'

Well said exactly I would be ashamed to say my mum didnt work and relied on the government just cause she didnt fancy doing certain shifts. My mum worked nights growing up never did me any harm. Its a shame to think of all those pensioners who fought or worked during the war and now have too much pride to claim (which they should be entitled to after paying so much in to the system) whilst there are others out there who make every excuse under the sun and say its what they are entitled to! Im sorry but that is way more shameful than your parents working and not being there for you 24/7

20-24 hours per week is less than 5 hours per day, spread over 5 days. Or 8 hours (max) spread over 3 days. Blimey. I don't think I've ever had a job where I've worked such few hours!

and who looked after YOU while your mum worked nights Sunshine?

Tocca is a SINGLE PARENT. She is LIMITED to what she can do aroung caring for her children.

You are the one who needs to get off your high horse. For fucks sake, you are the reason so many people end up depressed. The constant belittling of people who maybe arent able to do as much as you seem to think you do.

oh fuck off sunshine, no fucking sun when you're around is there. If I could find work that covered my bills, meant I least saw my children for an hour or 2 a day and weekends, childcare to go with it, then I would be working.......

You think I like where I am now, how I have to live, the bullshit that people spout at me, being called lazy, being accused of having a bad attitude (all because I'd actually like to have work that means I see my children occasionaly so wouldn't want to work evenings/weekends - as their father never sees them - if he saw them regularly I wouldn't be quite so concerned about it - but they're still kind of reeling from the fact that daddy lives on the next street, doesn't work (but gets p*ssed regularly) but never rings to speak to them and has only see them once since we split.

Not to mention DS3 suddenly having memories of what he witnessed and talking about them, of course I want to leave a child that currently sits and tells me that "you're frightened of daddy aren't you" "daddy hurt you didn't he" in childcare so he never sees his mother. And that's not even going into my reasons for never doing night work again, no matter how well off I'd be, and not wanting work right now because of panic attacks over innocent phrases.

So the fuck off to your fucking "sunny" life, I just sincerely hope that you never have to walk the life I've had recently - but it sucjs and it doesn't help when people make judgements about people based on ver few facts.

oh and PMSL at the fact that you know the ins and outs of peoples lives because you used to work in the local.........of course no-one ever exaggerates or talks crap when they're pissed do they? I certainly wouldn't be sat telling someone that worked in the local the actual ins and outs of my life and finances.

Round of applause for Tocca.

Sunshine - time to walk away I think - when 'fuck off' is the best response someone can give. Charming manners

Danjarmouse - my mum was a single parent when I was growing up until I was 16. I just stayed round a friends house 2 nights a week. My mum then made it up to her friend by taking her kids in the day.

IMO, there are actually very few people who choose to live on benefits forever.

For those that do, it's not much of a life is it?

She did it cause she had to because there were no tax credits and she needed to keep our flat. Its what she had to do.I have one sister and 2 brothers and we just had to get on with it. As I got older I did a lot of the care cause we are a family and thats what families do.

No violet - its the fact she isnt LISTENING to what Tocca is saying.

Back then, the reciprocal childcare was fairly easy. But in this day and age, I know of NO-ONE that would take in my 3 kids overnight 2 or 3 times a week......

Paid childcare does not exist for shift workers - FACT.

sparklefrog - no we do not CHOOSE to be on benefits and certainly do not intend to be on them FOREVER.

I see this as a stop gap until my youngest is in full time school.

oh believe me I would LOVE not to have to look after my kids 24/7 - they are great kids (actually bloody awful today - but that's another thread) - but I certainly don't enjoy being in charge of the 24/7 - would love to be able to palm them off on someone else for 24hrs a week..........I'd just actually like to see my children occasionaly. I would have to work at least 20-24hrs.......there are no jobs with those sorts of hours round here so it would be

And yes - I worked nights for 2 1/2yrs......but I had a husband to look after the children while I was at work, and then stayed up all day with them when I got home, and just as it seems to be a "oh but I did this, that AND this thread) I was pregnant at the time. (not for all the time obviously)

Also my 2 brothers, my sis, me and my mum lived in a 2 bed flat as my mum couldnt afford more but thats life isnt it? get over it we all have to work hard and I have respect for my mums work ethic for doing all she did for us. She worked as a carer for the majority of the time but took cleaning jobs, waitressing etc. The kids were expected to help out with housework, cleaning, childcare and generally pull together. You are not the only one in the world that has been in this situation

'Palming kids off' - not a nice phrase. Is that a dig at working parents? Thought so!! Sorry - my kids are clever and successful. Bet you'd love it if they were fucked up wouldn't you?

Well then how about having some bloody sympathy rather than berating and belittling?!

You keep referring back to your mum - so we are probably talking a good 10-15yrs ago yes?! Things have changed drastically since then, and as you are probably well aware, there just arent the jobs out there at the moment.

My local paper yesterday - 3 jobs for this area (15 mile radius) 1 of which I am going to apply for but not holding my breath at getting it.

violet - you really are reading too much into this.

I would call the after school club I put my DD1 into as "palming off" I would call the FREE nursery sessions my DD2 attends as "palming off" Its just a phrase.

No-one here thinks working mothers fail their kids, NO-ONE.

All Tocca is saying is that as her kids have no father taking care of them, she needs to be there in the mornings and for tea/bedtime.

if I could wake up tomorrow and go out to work...........oh hang on tomorrow's Sunday - I'm off to "work" anyhow, Monday then, and come home with my head held high because I was paying my own way I would.

I had never claimed a penny in benefits until 2yrs ago (apart from WTC - but we didn't get much of that as exH was in a pretty well paid job, and the year we tried to set up the business and nearly lost the house/went bankrupt he refused to tell the TC's that we had no income, and refused to claim any other benefits - and I back him on that one).

sunshine you just have all the answers!

if you think its not racist down here (assumung you are in torquay or similar) you must be blind and deaf. i'm not far from you and this is the most racist place i've ever lived in

also i assume your mum owned her flat as otherwise it was contravening overcrowding policies

mamanatomy - are you serious?? of course no one was emabarrased to get thier ration books out - they were mandatory - for everyone!!!

sighs loudly

yes I use the "palming off" very loosely - when exH did have the DS's about a month ago I very excitedly told all my friends I was "palming then off for the day"(and even posted it on facebook . I am looking forward to palming DS3 off to nursery in September, today (in particular) I'm looking forward to palming my older 2 back off to the schools again in just over a weeks time. I look forward to palming my DS's over to creche and sunday school at church so I can play the organ without being "helped" or breaking up bickering.

I HAVE worked, I WILL work again. I have no qualms with working parents. I just have issues with being told I have a lazy sense of entitlement, and no work ethic.

Well if they were mandatory for everyone on benefits there wouldn't be a problem would there ? I'm sorry but I have no problem with embarrassing people off benefits, it used to be something you were throughly ashamed of, swung far too far the other way.

I'd ask you Toccatonfudge, what would you do if you woke up tomorrow and there were no benefits at all ? Because I couldn't live like that, not being in control of my own destiny.