in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

Yes Riven but the child free and non resident parents already feel like a walking meal ticket, if you are unlucky enough to lose your job and have no kids you can rot on the streets as far as the benefit agency is concerned, people have been forced to sleep in cars.
And yet produce a child, wanted, loved or not you are provided for by the state.
That is winding people up.

I would hate to be a part of a society which thinks childfree people 'ought' to work rather than parents.

And yes, raising children, caring for them and feeding them is a hugely important part of society, but working parents do that too you know. Would hate this to turn into a WOHP/SAHP debate, but that misconception needs nipping firmly in the bud. Loving and responsible parents raise their children, whether they work or not, end of. You just need to squeeze the cleaning and cooking into your busy day more creatively if you both work!

By tackling parents that dont work and live on benefits, you are attacking the problem two fold though. One in that they should be supporting themselves and their children and two the children see that you have to work.

Children on benefits see that you can still have Sky tv, consoles for xmas all without working and grow up with little or no work ethic. The cylce repeats and the child often goes on to claim themselves.

No IS for lone parents and only JSA would cut our teen pregnancy rate as well so there are multiple benefits to making parents work rather than letting them live of the state/tax payers.

"And yet produce a child, wanted, loved or not you are provided for by the state." They got it right in the Victorian days. Obviously the answer is to put the children to work...

food vouchers in cash - fucking hell. No-one is going to tell me how much I can/should be spending on my groceries, or where I should be buying them from. That's where I many to "save" most of my money - on my grocery shopping as I shop around and save a fortune, do a "big" shop every one or two months where I stock up on the biggest/best value boxes/bottes/etc of non-perishables.

and lucky for ou that you have childcare facilties that do those extra hours, I looked into it not that long ago and there's nothing here - and I don't suppose the "out of hours" care is very cheap - and even if it was I wouldn't be willingly working all afternoon/evening/weekends.

If I did that I may as well sign my DS's up for the "fucked up" club now...as I don't imagine that never seeing their mother (nor their father....) is going to be particularly good for them.

I would have to move if I wanted to do my housework early morning/late a night like I used to. Believe me - it may not take long with 1 child, but with 3 children it takes longer.

"ts also unfair to blame it all on the fathers - not all leave, some women find other men, some have the child in a casual relationship etc. Not all NRP disappear, many contribute to their child regardless of not living in the same household."

yes - but many don't, many woman aren't in that situation, and just have fucking useless ex's. I know quite a few woman who are either single now, or have been single in the past, with children from a previous relationship, and only ONE of those has an ex who takes any interest/does anything to support their children.

so toccaton fudge - you think if you work 16 hours a week then 'If I did that I may as well sign my DS's up for the "fucked up" club now...as I don't imagine that never seeing their mother (nor their father....) is going to be particularly good for them' err ok then, what about all the working mums and dads out there that work to support you so you can have the choice to be lazy! I think thats a disgraceful attitude.

'and even if it was I wouldn't be willingly working all afternoon/evening/weekends.'

also lots of people have to do this if everyone had that attitude society would fall apart. Do you think I want to clean up after people, waitress and babysit in my free time on top of my actual job? Well people have to do it as they have to make money to keep a roof over their heads and not claim off others.

Whilst we actually deal with the issues of Mums on Benefit; they're not a problem; they're a tremendous resource.

An unused resource.

Mums on Benefits work in the schools that their child attends.

I've met little opposition to this idea.

bluecardi - wow. vouchers? you don't think maybe thats a little big massively stigmatising/degrading. Should the vouchers be like the tesco ones that section 4 asylum seekers get? Where you dont just get £5 to spend in tesco they are actually item specific such as '0.5 kg of carrots' and so on.

even i sigh a bit about the benefits debate but i think financial autonomy should only be removed in criminal circumstances (not poor people/those trying to escape torture/warzones etc)

blooming flowers - agreed they should help in schools or do voluntary work then when their kids are at school if they dont work. There are plenty of community places that would welcome the help.

no - I said I wouldn't work anti-social hours (ie evenings/weekends) - please read my posts as with my children at school that would mean they wouldn't see me (or their "father") - you think it's healthy for a child to not see either parent week in week out???

And besides I would have to work more than 16hrs to be able to pay my bills, 16hrs just 'aint going to cut it (unless it's very well paid 16hrs) to keep a roof over my head/food on the table/clothes on my DS's backs.

I will never work nights again, no matter how much you paid me.

And f*ck off with your "lazy" comments, I'm not fucking lazy, I would like to be lazy at times, however my other work (oh I can't call it work as obviously I have no fucking work ethic ) does tend to keep me fairly busy

And think of all the training involved, and then the moaning from people who are sacked from the jobs that are now gone over to 'voluntary' instead of paid.

our infant school regularly turns away parent volunteers have they already have more than they need!

riven - they can litter pick and maintain the local area if they cant get crb checked and if they can pass the crb check then they can work in the places set out above. There are so many things that need doing to improve communities why cant healthy benefit claimants put something back in instead of just taking out?

I thought that's what people on community service (ie criminals) did??

and who will look after my children when I'm out litter picking with the burgling drug addicts and the boy racers with no licences???

'And besides I would have to work more than 16hrs to be able to pay my bills, 16hrs just 'aint going to cut it (unless it's very well paid 16hrs) to keep a roof over my head/food on the table/clothes on my DS's backs.'

you can work 16 hours without it effecting your entitlement as has been mentioned numerous times.

www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/people-advise-others/entitlement-tables/work-and-child/under-16-ho urs-child.htm

"If I did that I may as well sign my DS's up for the "fucked up" club now...as I don't imagine that never seeing their mother (nor their father....) is going to be particularly good for them.

I would have to move if I wanted to do my housework early morning/late a night like I used to. Believe me - it may not take long with 1 child, but with 3 children it takes longer."

Nobody mentioned working all day and night, just that childcare was available to those who did shift work. There is no reason not to work during the day though when the bulk of childcare is available - there are very very few areas with no childcare facilities at all. Plus the children will all become school age so no reason to be home all day anyway.

As for housework, yes noisy jobs like hoovering cannot be done early but lots of others can - jobs can be done around work its not actually that hard as lots do it.

no - if I work 16hrs I lose the IS, I lose most of the housing benefit, and most of the council tax benefit,

Unless you think the lone parent worker at the job centre was lying to me when she did the "better off" calculation for me and told me that I'd need to work at least 20-24hrs a week..........

'and who will look after my children when I'm out litter picking with the burgling drug addicts and the boy racers with no licences???'

WHEN YOUR KIDS ARE AT SCHOOL!! as I have said many times

When you start reading the posts saying children of working parents 'never see their parents' and 'belong to the fucked up club' then you know it's time to walk away....

Actually, if you want to talk facts, your child is far more likely to be 'fucked up' as one poster so elegantly put it, by having a NPR who doesn't give a shit about them, or by being raised in a family where no parent works.

Time to wake up and get real. Life is going to get tougher for many people - the country has run out of money, and needs to get the economy healthy, doesn't matter whether people like it or not - it's gonna happen!!

well 20 - 24 hours a week isnt many hours to work is it? Im sorry but it does seem like excuses you cant moan how people look at it when they have to do more but end up with practically the same amount. It isnt fair and no matter what you say you cant change that. How is it fair that my husband and I work all those hours and only take home £1400 and only get child benefit and child care paid and it involves slogging our guts out. Im sorry but it is a huge sense of entitlement to think you deserve it for doing less.

Sunshine, volunteering could be great (prefer not in schools though) as it would benefit the community, help bulk out cv's and the person gives something back to society. There would be untold benefits to such a scheme. The school aged children would be at school and the volunteers could also extend to creche facilities for pre-school children.