to feel annoyed when Samantha Cameron is referred to as a mum of two

[mydoorisalwaysopen]

and expecting her third child - if I were her I'd be really upset by this. It's as if Ivan never existed.

It's always going to be a difficult call though I can see why she would be upset. It's also not as if the number of kids is particularly necessary for anything, either. She could just be described as a mum - if even that was necessary.

She's a mum. They had a child that gave them so much joy and happiness but was only with them for a short time, he was still her child and should be acknowledged.

Yanbu they dont have to say that, we all know who she is, so just her name would do fine. and the stupid press would do well to remember ivan, heartless gits

Ouch.

i think mum of two is ok, but should say "expecting her fourth child, after the loss of x-year old son Ivan last year."

She is expecting her fourth child and they should aknowledge that, just because one of her children has passed away doesn't mean he didn't exist.

YANBU it makes me feel sad too.

YANBU. No matter what you think of someone (and I can't see any particular reason to vilify the wife of any politician, but there you go), ignoring the losses that they have suffered is just callous.

I wouldn't be surprised exactly if this is just an editorial oversight, because that's the sort of thing which happens in the presses these days , but it's still deserving of an apology.

Our DS2 was stillborn, at term, last year. I still don't know how to answer the 'how many children?' Depends on the who and the where.
I saw this is the paper and I felt for S Cameron. It is as if Ivan ceased to exist.
People I am sure either do not think or don't understand what this sort of thing does to the parents.

I agree with Chandellina, "expecting her fourth child, after the loss of x-year old son Ivan last year." says it all really, no reason to say anything more than that.

Poor Sam, I'd be angry and upset if I was her, Ivan will always be her son, its heartless of them not to include him.

It is horrible to refer to her as 'expecting her third'. I agree with Tott, she deserves an apology.

Not every sees it this way. I had a younger sister who died when 13 months old.

Whenever my mum was asked how many children she always always missed out my sister who died.

My mum's way of dealing with it was not mentioning it or talking about it.

Mentioning Ivan in the same sentance almost suggests she is replacing him in some way and as if she wouldn't be pregnant had it not been for the loss of "x-yr old son Ivan last yr".

Is there any need to say any more than fourth child?

siilk I had a friend whose first child was stillborn. She went on to have 2 more children but always said she had 3, one deceased.

I remember seeing the exact same thing with the Browns - when Sarah gave birth to their younger son, one paper I read referred to her as having given birth to her "second child, a sibling for John". I was so appalled - I don't think anyone in the country would have thought this was her second child, as everyone was well aware they had lost Jennifer, and hence it was so very clear to everyone that this was her third child. So sad that the press is now doing the same with the Camerons - might have hoped they'd have realised how bad it was first time round

yanbu, she will always be a mum to Ivan and it's really gross for the press to refer to her in a way that eradicates his existence. She is soon to be a mum of four, that one of them is not with them now is irrelevant, she will always be his mum.

It's horrible but unsurprising. My own mother told me I wasn't a mother after dd1 died - to some people deceased children fail to count after their deaths.

I always say I'm a mother of 5, just have one who died at birth.

Mucktub at your mother's comments, how hurtful

Yes, I agree Sam Cam is a mum of 3 and is expecting her 4th child!

Bloody idiot press

I had a stillborn (DD3) 6 years ago and subsequently had DS1 now 5

in my heart i will always be a mother of 4 children, and i HATE it when people refer to my Dc as number1,number2, number3 etc

we even had commetns (on birth of DS) along lines of 3rd time lucky, thank goodness its not another girl etc - MOSTLY from people who did not know, but hurtful nonetheless

I agree wiht LadyAnon as it sounds like it's a replacement child

YANBU.

I am my parents' 4th child. Their 3rd died when he was 9 months old, long before I was born. But I still consider myself the 4th child, and my mum considers herself a mum of 4.

Slightly off this subject, but I wonder if you can help me...

When I meet friends who've lost a child I always try and mention the lost child (if it's appropriate). If we've been somewhere I know the dead child once enjoyed going to, I might say something like, I remember how XX loved that trip to the farm.

I try and be sensitive to time and place and not mention it if it might be embarrassing or inappropriate for them to feel emotional.

Am I doing the right or wrong thing? It just seems so harsh not to keep on acknowledging the child who's gone.

YANBU at all.

There are some insensitive people out there, glazing over the facts as if they dont matter!

Shes a mum, but she is also much more than just a mum, she is her own person too, numbers of dc are irrelevant, its as if saying more dc makes you more of a mum, and obviously those who passed away dont actually count anymore.

It is so wrong and sad and makes me rather angry.

YANBU

when my cousin died my aunt sobbed to my dad "I can STILL say I have 4 children cant I?" so heartbreaking at that time - and always- it was so important to her

It is so important to acknowledge children, whether they are phsically there or in your heart.

It is so sad, reading these stories.

abr1de, we have some friends whose baby recently died in the womb, and I have been determined not to "forget" or gloss over it, only I haven't been able to see my friend (the mother) since it happened to say anything ! (I've written her a letter). Meanwhile, when I see her husband in the street, he says hello and escapes!

I know from my friends that the letters helped.