to feel annoyed when Samantha Cameron is referred to as a mum of two

[mydoorisalwaysopen]

and expecting her third child - if I were her I'd be really upset by this. It's as if Ivan never existed.

abr1de - I can't vouch for mothers who have lost children, but I always appreciate it when people mention my mum in similar contexts.

I find this very sad, and indeed commented on a previous thread over a week ago that Mr Cameron was being referred to a a father of 2.

TBH I think that she is a mum of 2-but definitely expecting her 4th.

My brother died as a baby and I grew up still being referred to as one of five, but I stopped saying it in the end because I was always treated like a liar. I remember at school things like
'I have 1 brother and 3 sisters'
response in front of whole class from someone:
'no you haven't, I've been to your house and you have three sisters'.
It wasn't nice.

My mum didn't speak to her dad for years as his only comment was 'it was a shame it was the boy'

I remember asking a lady earlier this year if she had children (which is always a dangerous question I suppose). I had 5 and the other man with us had nine (!). She said she had had two but one had died at 7. She had the same issue. I think people do like to mention the child that died.

It's difficult though, how do mothers who have lost children feel? Do they have two children but mother of three?

Mucktub... what a dreadful thing to say.

i think the situation is always a diffcult one whether its samantha cameron or any parent.

but in samantha cameron's case it is disrespectful to them as a family to not include Ivan especially since he only died very recently. the press surely cant claim they had forgotten that happened.

mucktub my DD died and afterwards I was told I was no longer a mum, so I feel for you. What do you do when you're a mum with no child? You're still their mum regardless of where they are, you'll always be their mum. Some people are just sick and insensitive idiots and are so lucky that they are so ignorant as have clearly never been in such a situation.

Abr1de I do think it's good to mention the child when it's appropriate yes. It's very sad to feel as if nobody else remembers your child, it's very isolating. I would love people to say '... used to love the ducks in the park' or 'I remember the time when .... did.. it was so sweet/funny' etc. But nobody does, it's like DD is the unmentionable elephant in the room, that she never mattered to anyone else and I am alone in my grief which is not helpful.

Thank you, everyone who answered, you've put my mind at rest and I'll keep on referring to the children who died.

posie I have since had a DS, after losing DD, and I will always be a mother of two. I have two children, one sadly died. The killer question is 'is he your first?' which I answer honestly and say 'no he's my second'. It's harder if people say 'do you have any other children?' because, factually, you no longer do, but you do have another child. It's very hard for parents who have lost children from my experience because I think everyone wants to acknowledge their child forever, of course they do, to not do so feels like a betrayal to the child. However many people don't refer to them in public because it comes with a whole host of problems- It's a conversation stopper for sure, and also it makes me feel guilty to ruin someone's day, so I sometimes lie and don't mention DD, but if I'm asked outright if I have other children or if he's my first I veer towards telling the truth. I will always be a mum of two, even if DD isn't here anymore.

It is difficult and different people will prefer different ways of handling it. I have 2 children (present tense) and rarely mention I had a stillborn, but I don't especially like it when she's forgotten when dicussing things in the past like pregnancies for example, though sometimes you just go along with it to avoid awkward discussions - my Aunt for instance recently reckoned dd was an easier birth than ds as ds had 'prepared the way' - of course dd1 (being my first child) was probably more instrumental in that, but it was easier to just nod than say, but you're forgetting dd1...

I would tend to agree that Sam is a mum of two but expecting her fourth child.

I know what you mean, Crumpette, my eldest ds died 10 years ago aged 7 and when people ask if ds2 is an only, I now say yes, but in the early days I'd always tell them he had a brother who died. Most people were very sympathetic but inevitably the convo turned to ds1s death and I'd often get upset, so now I only tell people occasionally.

The people who matter, ie dh, ds & I and the grandparents and the few people we're still intouch with knew and remember him.

oh my goodness StrawberryCake, what a shocking thing for him to say Your poor parents, her dad was lucky she ever spoke to him again

YANBU, I had to put a comment underneath a news story that referred to Sam C expecting her third child. Meant to go back and see if they'd changed it, but forgot. I hope they did.

I remember seeing Gordon and Sarah Brown described by Private Eye as a "couple expecting their first child" when she was pregnant with their eldest son.

Made me and too.

Agree with others, if you are worried about putting your foot in it, you don't mention any number of children. The fact that they have done shows they couldn't give a shit about causing distress.

Crumette, according to friends I am very unEnglish and open, I would always love to hear about your daughter...what was her name?

thanks for the clarity, I have a friend who lost her little baby boy...she now has two girls, but I never know how I would describe her.....now I do, she's a mother of three but sadly her baby boy died.

I felt that too when I saw an article about her having her 3rd DC... I'm sure DC and SC feel the same, but not like they can really say anything about it can they?

epithet, good for you for saying something!

YANBU

In the paper yesterday it said she was having her third child.

She is a mother of 3, expecting her fourth.

Of all the things to have in common poor Camerons and Browns having this. I hope the all of them ignore the press on any personal issues and focus on the work. Insensitive but sadly not surprising.

It is possible people don't mention the child who has died as they are worried about upsetting the parent and maybe they feel they can't cope/don't know what to do if the parent breaks down.

Fab, I know what you mean, but I've never liked that argument - the parent has to live with awful pain; surely a friend should cope with a bit of discomfort for the sake of their friends?

I would say she is a mum of 3, expecting her 4th. Anything else is an insult to the whole family.

Of course.

It isn't easy for either.

I don't mention the two babies I have lost because other people don't know what to say.

I understand but it pisses me off too.