to feel annoyed when Samantha Cameron is referred to as a mum of two

[mydoorisalwaysopen]

and expecting her third child - if I were her I'd be really upset by this. It's as if Ivan never existed.

Perhaps people should ask the Cameron's what is okay for them instead of assuming they would rather forget their beloved Ivan?

Perhaps I'm wrong as a person lucky enough so far to not have been bereaved, but I would have thought nothing can really upset a parent about the loss of a child more than the loss itself, except perhaps the denial of the child. So reminding Sam that she had a son that it is no longer with her couldn't possibly upset her in the grand scheme of things. I am struggling for words, but if that was me the loss would be so enormous that reminding me would be nothing, forgetting my child would be very painful.

Sorry if I'm not making sense.

If we're allowing dead relatives could we describe the smith family next door as family of 5000 including stillbirths, abortions,child deaths,deaths from old age,scurvy, polio and world war two german bombs?

YANBU, I think they should say mum of three. my friend's son died at 3 months old. She always includes him when talking about how many children she has (5)

I agree with you posie. Leaving out the fact he existed is more hurtful than bringing up the fact he's not there. IT's not as if she's going to think "oh, I wish they'D stop reminding me about Ivan."

There really isn't a right answer though. If the press describes her as a mum of 3, then she might get strangers asking her about her 3rd child (because they'd read in the press that she had 3 and not realised the circumstances) and that would lead to conversations that she might well prefer not to have at least not with people she doesn't know well. To be honest, I think all references to family size sting somewhat after a bereavement whether or not they include the deceased child.

How many children she has is 2, so she (currently) a mum-of-two.

How many children she has had is 3 (so far) so she is expecting her fourth.

Is that too logical and unemotional?

ILIVEONBENEFITS

Do you really have to post?

I am very at the idea that the press could forget Ivan in this way. I have been hurt before by the insensitivity of people myself when the birth announcement in the newsletter at work described me as having given birth to my "first baby". They were all there when my first baby was stillborn, so should have known it was my second baby. And they could have just said "a baby boy" (or whatever if they were worried about it being awkward .

So yes, YANBU - it's crap and they can't claim to have forgotten after such a short time.

YANBU

My mum died as an adult and my aunts tend to say there are 3 sisters rather than 4, when talking to people they don't really know, rather than going into it all. My grandad on the other hand is very vocal in correcting people that he has 4 girls.

StrikeUpTheBand that's ridiculous! What idiots!

River sorry about your mum. I think for parents it's harder in a way to adjust and you always feel protective so no wonder your grandad says that, he does have 4 girls.

Trillian yes that is obviously correct but it just doesn't work like that. I will always be DD's mum and there's a pang of hurt there if I say I have had instead of I have or I was instead of I am.... so yes, logical and true but unemotional

I think SC will always be a mum to Ivan, she will always be a mum of 3 and now 4, and the press should make it clear she's expecting her fourth child.

when child deaths were more prevalent, i think there was a tendency for mothers to say "i have xx living children." i suppose they are acknowledging that they have had children who died, but not mentioning it outright.

can't the press not put how many children she has living and just put that she is expecting her 4th?

or if they have to give a synopsis, they could out "mother of 3 (of which, sadly, son Ivan died last year) who is expecting her 4th"

it really is sad when people (especially as Ivan was mentioned sooo many times in public - regarding disability, regarding their famiyl etc) ignore the fact that there was another child.
It really must be heartbreaking (both parts - losing a son and having his very existance ignored)

I can't beleive anyone would tell a mother who lost a child that they wern't a mother!

If my mother passes away does that mean I am not a daughter? Of course not, how ridiculous!

And I woudl still "have" a mother even if she isn't here.

Riverofsleep, Oh! Your grandand. I found your post quite moving.