to think it was a mistake to give a damn about education?

[AbbyLubber]

Ok, I know some will really disagree about this, but I am fed up. Really furious. I earn a solid, not great wage; so too dh. We have two children. We've scrimped and struggled and sweated to pay for them to go to independent schools, because they are both bright and because here in Oxfordshire the local state schools in our area are dreadful, really dreadful. We're almost at the end of our rope financially. My son has a scholarship, but the schools say we earn too much to qualify for a bursary, though they also admit that we don't actually earn enough to pay the fees over the long term.

WTF? AIBU to think that if we don't earn enough to pay the fees then that should BE a benchmark for help? I get that it's political, that they want to keep their charitable status, but surely this is madness? Perhaps I should add that we don't have a fine art collection we can sell, or rich parents... as per the ludicrous inquiry form the school sent around.

Isn't ANYONE else cross that soon unemployed single mums and the rich will be the only ones able to send their dcs to a good school of their choice - unless of course you pay in the other way, by buying a 675k house in the tiny Cherwell catchment area? Not that I'm against unemployed single mums and their kids - the more the merrier - but I wonder now why I worked full-time when my dcs were small to earn a decent wage.

OP - "But I have -= as said above - NO hope of making any difference to them."

Yes, you have. Become a governor. Join the PA (or equivalent). Be prepared to donate to the school the amount you are willing to pay for Private Education (imagine what would happen to state education if those who were in private education 'repatriated' their children AND their money to the state sectir!!!). Be active. Go and see teachers if there are problems. Volunteer. Work at it as hard as you would a job.

Change is never easy - but it won't happen unless someone is willing to challenge, contribute and help. It sounds as if you are dedicated to your DCs education. How about putting all that dedication into helping your local state school - and thereby a bunch of other kids as well as your own - instead of just trying to get money to do it?

That's really helpful, Otter. Many thanks.

But I also just wanted to make the point - and I think it's pleasingly well understood -that these schools are not particularly just or very charitable. I think we should all call their bluff. Including anyone wiht a bursary who finds they can't afford the normal 'extras'.

belle de, are you seriously saying schools in your area won't give bursaries to single mothers, on some kind of silly moral grounds?

Your comments on home ed made me laugh a lot, spring-heel - but I take it you aren't yourself in flight from Them?

Part of the problem with the idea of choice in education is that it means that struggling schools get worse as middle class, diligent parents fight to get their child in a choosen school and failing that opt out of the state system. Oxford shows this perfectly as the schools near Cowley do not have the mix of students that the catchment area would suggest it should.

Alexsdad, really good suggestions.. but does anyone have any personal evidence that they work? I know lots of wonderful teachers in the state sector - not in my geographical area, though - and they have a huge repertoire of horror stories about how interfering parents find their kids targeted...

Oh, and how do you become a governor? sorry. Regard me as thick.

that these schools are not particularly just or very charitable

Your looking at the wrong schools then, ours offer full 100% bursary's including a uniform allowance and the trips and lunches are included in the price.
I don't think they get many applications from the truly needy if we're blunt/honest but the other parents in the school will openly tell people what's available and I spread the word locally.
And as a result it's a bloody good school, those who "don't do bursary's" don't get that great results either.

I just wasn't offered one Abby. Ds sat the entrance exam late so I think they had all gone, he wasn't offered a scholarship either, I am a little dissapointed as it would have really helped. We live like you, no holiday, a really old TV, I don't have a car. It's cheaper to send him off to University (at the moment) so I shall look forwards to this.

OtterInASkoda - it's not just the OP that reads as if she thinks other parents care less

"I also don't get your collective acquiescence. WHY aren't you all out there screaming at the House of Commons? Rather than making a virtue of compliance? ... Wouldn't YOU do better to scream at the actual problem-makers? "

And I think it's noticeable that she suddenly cares about the school being "unjust and uncharitable" when her children are inconvenienced by the unfairness. I doubt she's been screaming at their board of directors about the unfairness of the system all these years when it didn't cause her any problem.

I don't get why you cannot further your children's education without fears of being an interfering parent. Taking them on holiday is furthering their education. Keeping a good quality newspaper is furthering their education. Discussing the election or the Icelandic volcano with them is furthering their education. Telling them about books you enjoy and trawling the second hand bookshops is furthering their education. And I very much doubt this will result in your children being "targeted". But it may make all the difference to their future careers.

Do you really think if you provide a home where learning is seen as exciting and a constant adventure that that will be undermined if the school is less than totally wonderful? I have seen no evidence of this in my own family.

And I agree with smallwhitecat, our children spent 4 years in an ofstead outstanding school with parents digging deep into their pockets and donating huge amounts of time (same old faces though doing all the work) and what was great about it, not a lot purely because it gainned such a good reputation for having the goodies that in year 3 there were 38 in a class and no extra government funding.

I can see the OP's view on Cheney but there is Matthew Arnold in Botley. A much cheaper area and actually a school doing very well at the moment. Why not move there?

Yes - governors can make a HUGE difference. Take a look at governor.net for the sort of things governers can do.

As a governing body we have have really helped our local primary, and I know our local secondary governors are very strong as well. The head is appointed by, and responsible to the governors, so you can help mould the philosophy of the school and support a good head in doing what is needed. They really can get a lot done if they are a good group.

I started off as a parent governor, but you can also get in as a local authority governor (write to your Local Education Authority and ask to be put on the list. They are ALWAYS after people, at least round here). Or you can apply direct ot the school as a community governor if you feel you have a particular voice to add. Your easist route though woulg be to be elected as a Parent Governor once you DCs were in the school.

It's very worthwhile, and best wishes if you decide to do that.

Well yes, MumInScotland.

And the reason I'm not screaming at the House of Commons is that actually, DS's school is rather good. Although I accept that not everyone is fortunate enough to live in an area where pretty much all the state schools are good (to the point that I simply Don't Understand why anyone on a moderate income would actually pay to have their DCs educated, rather than putting the fees-money to better use.

YABU - I went to Matthew Arnold 15 years ago while it was still 'not good' and still managed to get into Oxbridge - if your kids are bright, they will succeed anyway, and you're better off spending the money on extra curricular activities than school fees. And my mum was a single parent - I don't get your comment about single mums - independent school was never a choice for us - even if you got help with fees how would she have afforded uniforms, kit, school trips etc?

I read your OP and was going to come on here all guns blazing, but then read the rest.

I can understand why you are upset, but seriously it is not the be all and end all, sending your kids private.

My dd used to go to a selective school, left because of severe bullying (which was not resolved by the school), and then I had the nightmare of getting her into a school in Gloucester. The schools here are split down the middle - 4 state grammars (avg 90% a-c at gcse) and 4 comps (avg 30% a-c). I had no chance in getting her into the grammars duie to the waiting list. I do not believe in private education ideologically at all so that was not an option (and, frankly, unless I could afford to send her to Cheltenham Ladies College all the private schools in this area are crap anyway).

DD went to one of the local 'crap' schools. She is doing brilliantly. She is dyslexic and is getting a far higher level of assistance, is in all the top sets and is flying along. Socially it is a hell of a mix but I think she will be far better placed to deal with life going to a school like this than a rarefied private school. To be honest, if you are interested in their education and supportive at home they will do well anyway. It is not the end of the world.

Only a very small minority of people can afford private school.
You shouldn't take it on if you are going to struggle just beacause private school is your preference

I would start going to church if I was you

Correction - the state grammars avg at 98% at gcse. Some of the best grammars in the country (if you are lucky enough to get in)

I wouldn't say that if you are supportive-well educated there is a guarantee that your children will do well educationally. But then again, sending them to a high performing independent is no guarantee either (remembering not only dh who failed A-levels, but friend who became a drop-out after even more high flying education). Ultimately, it is not down to the school. It is not down to the parents. It is down to them. Scary thought.

Abby, I am going to go against the grain and say that I agree with you one hundred per cent. It's an absolute effing disgrace that the "choice" (ha, bloody ha) for so many middle-income parents is a crap state school or a crap state school. Having given up every conceivable luxury/holiday/pretty much everything, we are also on the private junior route (thanks to one almost full scholarship), and have no idea how we will afford it for two DCs at secondary level, short of DS getting another scholarship. Even then, we'd be struggling - but not enough to qualify for a bursary. And, no, we can't just move to a good catchment area (why do so many people make that sound so easy?? To get into a good catchment area anywhere near where we currently live, we'd be looking at houses for a million pounds. In our dreams. Oddly enough, we can't just up sticks and move to Kent, or wherever there are grammar schools).

I don't agree about middle-class children with interested parents doing well regardless of where they go to school. I have seen far too many such children utterly fail to thrive in rubbish state schools. (Yes, I know there are lots of dysfunctional drug addicts at private schools, and lots of good eggs at state schools). I do sometimes wonder what planet some MNers live on if they think that a very bright child will do well in a failing comprehensive where bright children are routinely bullied and beaten up for being 'swots'.

Abby, you have my sympathy.

Every school should be a good school. It's rediculous that parents are made to feel inadequate because they can't access/fund the right school for their child. Surly the government need to look at what makes a good school and raise the benchmark for the ones that don't meet the grade.

But Betty, children are not routinely being beaten up for being swots in every comprehensive, not even in every comprehensive with poor exam results. Our local secondaries are not the kind of schools that parents move to get close to- but they are very tough on bullying and their pastoral support is good.

smallwhitecat I know what you mean regarding the system as a whole - and I acknowledge the following would never really work...

But if Private school fes are £5K per year (I have no idea how muuch they really are!) and you had, say, 20 pupils from the local private school 'repatriated' to each state school - and the £100K went with them - DIRECT to the school, then that £100K per year really could do a lot! Even the £1-5 which the parents raise at our school makes a difference. £100K would be amazing, even after an additional teachers wages were taken out!

Betty, its a disgrace that the "choice" for low income parents is a crap state school or a crap state school too, don't you think?

alexdad gave loads of really good advice there.