to think my SIL should've kept her DS under control?

[BettyButterknife]

Went out for a meal at the weekend with most of DH's family (13 of us). SIL's DS is 3.5yo and quite a handful. My DS is coming up to 3yo and totally in love with his cousin - proper hero-worship stuff.

So anyway, food comes and I expect my DS to sit up at the table and eat with everyone. SIL's DS eats fast, my DS is a very slow eater, so about 20 minutes into the meal SIL lets her DS get down from the table. My DS sees this and says he's finished (he hasn't) and can he get down too.

Long story, but there's a history of SIL feeling like the rest of the family question her parenting methods, so I was put in an awkward position where I'm trying to explain to my DS that we all stay sitting at the table until everyone has finished, and that it's not acceptable to run around in a crowded restaurant with waiting staff trying to do their jobs, carrying trays etc. All the time nephew is standing there next to DS completely confusing the issue. In the end I let DS get down as he was crying while nephew was laughing and winding DS up, and I felt there was only so much I could say without potentially starting a row about how to parent.

But AIBU to think that if you're going to take children out for a meal you should expect some control over the situation?

We take dd out to eat pretty regularly, usually Sunday lunch somewhere, and whilst we have had some struggles with her behaviour whilst out (wanting to use the loo every 5 minutes can still be an issue) now at just turned 4 she is generally much better.

Whilst I have walked out of places because of her behaviour I don't really think that she learnt from it tbh (after all, she didn't really want to be there!) I think, as Morris says, that she just got older and more mature.

Betty, I don't think you were being unreasonable. TBH I am of the school of parenting that teaches children to behave properly in restaurants - not letting them run around busy restaurants. Letting your children run around a busy restaurant is inconsiderate to other customers, dangerous to the child and I can't imagine the stress it causes to waiting staff.

I don't and wouldn't, but thank you for offering, that's very generous of you.

Have you thought about hiring somewhere to conduct business deals that have the potential to affect the careers and lives of several people? Seems a bit silly to do them in public when they can so easily be jeopardised by other customers.

Children should not run round in restaurants, it's as simple as that!

YANBU.

My SIL and BIL are like this, letting their DCs run around in restaurants unsupervised.

We just don't go out with them any more.

What I don't understand is why you would go to a restaurant that doesn't have a garden for kids to play in, when you're celebrating your dh's birthday and it's a family meal, involving small children?

Sorry op but i think you are totally unreasonable and judgmental. If you want to parent differently then do it but just because your sil has different boundaries don't blame her when you relax yours. There are plenty of people who let their 3.5 year olds down from the table and imo not because they are lazy prents but because they don't impose unfair limitations on their particular child's needs. Frankly this is the best place to post your viewpoint as many people on here espouse the old fashioned British school of parenting. I am quite sure my post will be lost amid a sea of vehement rebuttals but I strongly believe you are being overly and unfairly judgmental and I feel very sorry for your sister in law. But don't worry because you chose this particular forum to post on you will have lots of people backing you up.

I think withorwithout you may need to get out more. It's perfectly acceptable to discuss business in a nice cafe, or over a meal in a restaurant. It should be a much more pleasant environment for an informal meeting than hiring some anonymous office space.
Going back a few steps, if people are going to insist on being inconsiderate about how their children behave in public I am wondering this. How exactly can a couple of adults go about finding a nice cafe where they can reasonably expect to have a quiet lunch and adult conversation without intrusion by OPK. (That is my new acronym for Other People's Kids).

Allowing a child of 3.5 to get down from a dinner table 20 minutes after starting his meal is NOT losing control of the situation.

Perhaps your child is a good deal more docile than hers? Perhaps she simply doesn't believe in making preschoolers sit and listen to adult conversations for hours on end?

if you take 3 year olds out to eat, you have to allow for ALL the three year olds, not just your own child with your own child's needs and your own child's personality. You say it's not acceptable for three year olds to leave the table - she says it's not acceptable for them to be made to sit in one place.

As far as your sister in law could see, her son needed to get down. Your son whining about being restricted by you was really not her problem.

I suggest you never eat with them again - in fact, avoid contact. It's sure to wind you up pointlessly. You have different parenting methods. You are not, however, necessarily right, and what would be right for your child is not always going to be what would be right for hers.

Oh for goodness sake. EmilyStrange have you bothered to read what experienced waiting staff have said about the dangers of children wandering around in restaurants and cafes? Fine, consider the "child's needs", which obviously includes getting a pot of hot tea spilt on their head. What happens then? Sue the restaurant I guess.
I guess you haven't read the whole thread, because if you had you would see that there are people on both sides of the discussion contributing.
(Goes off to hide thread and beat head against a wall).

Nope I didn't read the whole thread (a huge sin on MN I know but don't quite understand why) but I wanted to respond to the OP. I am well aware of the dangers thanks and I allow movement from my children after considering risks and keep my eye on what is happening the whole time. So far we have avoided a pot of tea over the head. I am sorry but I think you either refrain from dining out or allow your kids some freedom of movement. Of course there are some kids that can sit at a table for ages but ime they are few and far between. I tend to avoid places that will be difficult, that is my choice.

My point is really better made by colditz.

I've got a business idea for a child friendly cafe. The crockery and cutlery are all plastic, the beverages are served at a cooler temperature to avoid the risk of scalding. Tables have nice round edges with soft padding. The floors are easy to swab lino and regularly mopped. (To clear up stomped chips and forgotten toddlers). There is lots of space between the tables for twin-sized buggies. Oh, and there is a play area. Staff move about slowly keeping an eye out in the direction of the floor. No, it's self-service so that if a toddler gets something tipped on them the staff can't be blames. Mums can breastfeed any time anywhere they please of course. They are also encouraged to sit for an hour drinking just one cup of coffee each and having a nice natter.
Do you think that would be an attractive proposition and mean that the "adult" places with glass top tables, lovely very hot drinks and gentle music in the background might become havens of peace and tranquility?

Playbarns and Funfarms, oh dear, I thought it sounded familiar. Why aren't the little children going there for their eating out experiences then? Where they can get down, run around and have some fun as well as eat?
I've had another idea... nappies that you don't need to wash! You just throw them away and get a nice new one out of a packet. I think I'll call them... Hampers.

"I didn't read the whole thread (a huge sin on MN I know but don't quite understand why)"

Hijack because this is my pet peeve.

Emily, it's because by doing that, you are
a) telling us all that while you don't think our opinions are worth reading, yours clearly is worth typing
b) usually repeating other people. But again, hey, as long as you get your say in, right?
c) running the risk of missing developments and nuances to the thread where the OP has come back and clarified something. This is particularly annoying where the OP has come back and said ok, I'm BU, sorry, and then another 20 people jump in to say "haven't read the thread but YABVVVVU" and retire all self righteous like. Or where a thread starts off with a minor peeve, ends up disclosing abuse, and people are coming in to say "ha ha if MY dh didn't make me a cup of tea I'd tell him where to shove it".

Fluffy and LeQueen, don't you two have a cafe to go to to discuss these ideas? I really think that would be more appropriate.

You are right tortoiseonthewotsit. However, we are scared to hold our meetings in cafes in case we spill hot coffee on a toddler. I was thinking, as the weather's lovely, we might go and sit on some swings. The toddlers are all in cafes, so it should be nice and quiet. We could use some nasty insulated mugs and suck our coffee out through a slot in the lid.

I think it's a tall order and completely unreasonable to expect very young children to behave like adults in a restaurant. They're hardwired to move about and explore, not sit still at a table for a couple of hours and be entertained by adult conversation.

fascicle, you are right it is a tall order and it is hardwork. But the way I see parenting is a short term pain for a long term gain - it is hard work teaching your children manners, particularly to sit quietly at the table but at some point you have to do it anyway and the later one leaves teaching them the basics of restaurant etiquette the harder it becomes.

There are places where it is acceptable for children to run and play whilst the parents are eating (as LeQueen has pointed out) and there are times when it isn't (at a Sunday family lunch). TBH if they have to be a bit bored for an hour it is a good lesson in life - as an adult I have had to suffer some boring and tedious lunches / meals and one does just have to grin and bear it. Alternatively, as others have suggested a book is alsi a good diustraction.

Ali, it DOESN'T becopme harder as they get older. It is so much easier to teach a 5 year old to sit quietly than it is to teach a 19 month old. how can you justify saying that it's harder when they are older?

older children naturally move around less.