or is this gender stereotyping gone mad?

[NarabugHitWindscreen]

I was in ELC yesterday and browsing the wonderful Happyland stuff. A mum with a little boy (2 at a guess) was browsing around, and looking at the storage boxes that go with Happyland stuff. She asks the shop assistant whether there is a 'boys' one.

Basically there is a pink fairy girly one, a space one (that she didn't want) and a generic one that looks like this this

Shop assistant shows generic one, and the mum says "Thats not for boys, it has flowers on"

I'm a bit clueless (as I'm a mum to a DD) and I know its none of my business, but I'm just curious - are mums with boys perturbed by unisex toys with flowers on etc?

Another e.g. apparently when my ex was a little boy he wanted a plastic tea set, but his dad refused to let anyone buy him one. If DD wanted a boyish toy I'd get it for her.

Just spit-balling for opinions, please don't roast me!

There are several theories on how children acquire gender identity and most point towards social learning - nurture rather than nature. It's a fascinating subject.

"Also you would never find many little girls in the monster truck and diggers section in toys r us. " =- well, if their parents are dragging them away from it, it's hardly surprising.

FFS colour coding children annoys the crap out of me.

LikesTheT-shirtWithToughEnoughToWearPinkOnItTiggaxx

I like that t-shirt too!

That Happyland box is not at all girly, anyway. Parents with ideas like that about boys and flowers, what will they do if their boy does grow up to be gay? Or a gardener?

Makes me larf when dads get all up tight about cooking - look at the the top Chefs.

I saw that program about the chimps. IIRC they placed some dolls and some cars on the grass and the chimps came down from the trees and picked up whatever toy they were drawn to.
I think they said something about girls tend to want to mother which is why they go for the dolls and it's not actually the car as such that interested the boys but more the moving wheels and parts so more of a mechanical interest iyswim.

My ds1 loves playing with toy pushchairs and things. I wanted to buy him one but dp says no way.
I've told him to stop being silly, after all, he pushes the buggy doesn't he? I think it's really sweet when I see a little boy with a pushchair.
I wouldn't force my ds to play with one, but if we were at a play group and he picked a buggy and doll to play with, fine.

My DS has that very thing from ELC and loves it. It had never occured to me that it was in any way girly - DS drives his cars around on it

The problem is once they go to nursery or school their peers influence their choices and many begin to reject parental attempts to avoid stereotypes. Gender relational theory suggests children actively reject the behaviour of the opposite sex as opposed to Social Learning Theory which suggests children copy the behaviour of the same sex.

ELC are really bad now at producing their products in blue and pink for boys and girls. You can even get a pink garage for girls . It's bizarre! DD's current obsession is with Diego, which is basically Dora the Explorer for boys, but I think it's because she has a crush on him! And I am slightly pleased that she professes her favourite colour to be green, despite the overwhelming amount of pink stuff that people keep buying her.

Breaks my heart that my 3 year old daughter has started saying things are 'for girls' or 'for boys'. She gets it from pre-school and television (note to self - must watch less...). She must also get it from me in a much more subtle way too, even though I try hard not to stereotype. It's everywhere - toy catalogues always show boys playing with science kits and girls with kitchen sets. Drives me mad.

When I was 6 (and this was over 20 years ago), I had a toy Transformer. A boy in my class had the same one and told the teacher that mine beloinged to him. She believed him because it was a 'boy's toy'. I went ballistic and so did my mum at the end of the school day. I got my toy back.

I agree it's all to do with peer pressure.

My ds (age 7) is home educated, and while he does have a peer group of kids his own age within HE circlesI have found that the boy/girl stereo types are not so set as they were even when he went to pre school, going by what I have seen with friends his age who go to school.

He is onto perfoming arts and dance and music, which is seen as a more girly thing for some rediculous reason and there are a few boys at his theatre school who go through hell at school being teased by other boys because they love ballet ( it seeems to get worse the older they get, around ten or eleven).

I think if ds attended school he would have a hard time as he can't abide football or other sports that boys are usually into, but usually it doesn't bother him. Not to say he doesn't sometimes get teased by friends (either ones who go to school or HE friends) He has been ribbed a few times by other boys for liking high school musical for example, but I've heard him turn round a couple of times and say 'dude, have you see. Zac Efrons girlfriend! Of course I want to be like him' so I think he handles himself quite well!

my dd and ds's couldnt car less what gendre theyre toys aimed at.but a friend wouldnt let her ds have a toy buggy.she had just had a baby and i asked if her dh would push the baby in a buggy she said yes so i pointed out that was all her ds wanted to do but apparently its not the same!same friend is disgusted that my ds2(age 4)favorite colour is pink

The peer pressure peeks around 6 or 7 yo. Then around 8 to 9 yo the girls start to reject being a 'girlie girl' and want to be accepted by the 'boys'. There is obviously a scale of masculinity and feminity but the polar opposites seem to be the 'expected' and for children who fall somewhere along the line the teasing begins. Dd was accused of being a girlie girl and cried ffs. She is graceful and polite and this was considered a flaw. Obviously, I've told her it's daft but I can imagine the teasing the boys who don't conform to masculine ideals are subjected to

My Ds, age 4, has an Aqua Barbie, which he begged for as a birthday present. He loves her to bits and regularly takes himself off for an hour in the bath with her.

I couldn't care less if he grows up straight or gay, and anyway it's probably about as much up to me as whether he's left or right-handed. But FWIW, I think that wanting to spend hours in the bathtub with a girl in a bikini is not the act of a man who prefers other men.

Its not just other kids who reinforce gender stereotypes though, it's other parents. The amount of times dh has been asked by collegues (male and female) if he is 'ok' with ds doing dance/drama instead of football or other sports or is he worried ds will be gay is asounding.

1. dh can't stand football and has never watched it in his life and is very greatful to have a child who is not into it either so he doesn't have to pretend to be enthusiastic about it and 2) I forgot, of course all male ballet dancers and actors are gay, ffs.

It has also been insinuated by family members that ds is into performing arts as he had a pink play pram as a toddler. Head, brick wall, bang.

The worst is the bloody pink globe! Why????

The only toys I have bought for dd have been so called boys toys eg cars, trainset, elc rocket/pirate ship. Other people have bought her dolls etc so we have a pretty equal amount of boys and girls stuff.

DD is the most girly girl ever and will only wear skirts and dresses, loves pink and purple and sparkly stuff...

DS is exactly the same

(although he will wear trousers just chooses skirts if he has the option)

I have a boy and a girl. They share all toys, they share many clothes. I do not tolerate gender stereotyping!

I have mentioned on here before I think, But pink used to actually be the 'boys' colour. This is because men used to wear red and pink was the 'little' of red. It is only in the last few decades that it has changed over. Seriously!!

SanFranDisco "The problem is once they go to nursery or school their peers influence their choices and many begin to reject parental attempts to avoid stereotypes."

Yes I could believe that. When I was a little girl I wasn't particularly interested in dolls, prams and playing house - I preferred cars and farm yard sets. Consequently I would say I was one of the last people to try to gender stereotype my DD. She did have dolls, but she also had train sets and cars. In fact, one Christmas when we could see she was likely to come in to quite a few "girly" toys, DH and I deliberately tried to balance things out a bit by getting her a toy garage.

Nevertheless she showed a preference for dolls and dolls house type toys from very early on. Either she was influenced by others at nursery or it was just an innate preference.

SilveryMoon "I think they said something about girls tend to want to mother"
That too. When DD was about 6-7 we started to get a part work magazine which helped you build a robot. She and I assembled it together and DH was really good about not getting involved. I know he was dead interested in it himself but he realised that one of the reasons I wanted to do it with DD myself was because I didn't want her thinking robots and electonics was something that you only did with Dad.

Anyway, one day I went in to the bedroom to find DD had taken the lid from the laundry basket and lined it with an old baby blanket and the robot was snuggly wrapped up in this little "nest". When I asked her why she said "I wanted to make the robot a comfy bed".

So much for positive role-modelling and all that jazz!

5foot5

I think that the problem is not that girls want to mother (which they probably get by seeing that's what mums, ie women do)
It's that we don't encourage the same for boys, who often also won't be separated by their soft toy when little but later are told this is girly stuff. It's interesting that a tomboy is not a bad thing, whereas a boy that seems more feminine is baaaad. To me that only shows a degree of misogyny in society - to be womanlike is wrong.
I believe women are conditioned to be carers, whereas boys to be do-ers. I also didn't want to play home when I was little, I preferred to run outside like all children did. But I also picked up on the fact that other mummies mostly stayed at home and cooked and took care of the children whereas daddies were the ones doing the driving, always went to work and certainly did far less housework.

I have noticed more and more that there are so many generic toys but then theu go and make all the toys in pink too. Why girls can't have the one that is green and orange I don't know.

My DS is a 'typical' boy. Absolutely mad on Thomas and Cars (we haven't pushed this, he just loves them) but at the same time he loves pushing a pushchair around (with cars in though), playing with tea sets and kitchens. Its all about role play. He will probably be a dad and husband one day so whats the problem?

It really makes me when people make comments. My DS has a couple of the girl engines from Thomas and one of them is lilac which my cousin made a comment on. Then at a party a couple of weeks ago my friends DH said I should take a photo of DS to show his GF when he's older. I couldn't work out why then I realised he was pushing a pushchair around. Another dad at the same party too a toy tiara off his son cause he was trying to put it on his head.

It does tend to be men a lot more. I didn't think mums were that bothered but the OP shows that there are daft women who think because a box has flowers on, then a boy can't play with it. My DS is getting quite into gardening after going to my nans and 'helping' his great grandad plant some seeds.

We go to Hamleys in London every Christmas so the DSs can buy a present for each other. It's ridiculously over-priced but it's a little family tradition.

There they have a Girls floor and a Boys floor.

It really annoys me that all the art and craft equipment is on the Girls floor -- and that floor is a sea of pink, which my DSs make gagging noises when they see.

lola - it can be a problem for boys who are not sporty, like DS1 - especially team sports. The football thing starts very early, pushed a lot by fathers.