to not be willing to leave behind my newborn for my friends 'no children' wedding.

[alannabanana]

so this wedding is taking place in august by which time i will have a roughly 8wk old newborn. i already have a 17 month DS for whom childcare has been arranged, but i have always said that leaving the newbie will not be feasible as i will be breastfeeding (boobies willing!), and to be honest the venue is a bit of a drive and i would not be able to enjoy myself knowing i had left such a young dependent baby with someone else. (i should say at this juncture that the very kind friend in question who would be taking care of DS and the new baby has v little experience of babies but great with toddlers, and ordinarily i would only trust my mum with the baby but she, and indeed my ENTIRE family, will be on holiday at the time of the wedding.)
i stipulated all this months ago to our supposedly close friends - the bride and groom - especially the part about my family being away and DH's family not being an option because they live nowhere near us, and they seemed ok with us having to bring the newbie, but have just received a phone call tonight saying that actually no children means NO children, even tiny babies. now, DH is actually more upset about this than me as the groom is one of his oldest and closest friends - i am of the opinion that if they don't get that you can't just leave an 8wk old baby willy nilly then theres nothing i can do to convince them - but poor DH is actually quite hurt that his mate has effectively withdrawn our invitation to his wedding, and i think he's well within his rights to be hurt, and a bit cross. is this unreasonable you think? im hoping that this doesnt spell the end of our friendship with them but it is disappointing.

Gerbil, I suppose it all hangs on how you interpret "they seemed ok with us having to bring the newbie".
To me, the way the op was written suggested that the OP had actually had a conversation with the B&G and explained about their situation - that would have been the time for them to say "well sorry then, but we don't want your mewling sprog there so we won't be seeing you either" (or whatever) and it seems that they didn't do that.

But unless the OP comes back and answers these points, we'll never know!

I thought they changed their minds - doesn't it say that in the OP?

I don't mean that I would drop people as friends if they didn't allow me to bring my DC - that would be guestzilla What I meant is that I really loathe the British/White American desire for a perfect photo opportunity wedding which is all about the couple and not making sure your guests enjoy themselves. I would be very surprised if any of my friends did that because they're not the sort of people who think civility begins at 18. Like I said, it's something I feel very strongly about because I think like trellism excluding children and treating them as 'other' is at the root of a lot of the problems that are particularly bad in white British and American society.

By the way, gerbilmeasles I wasn't judging you for formula feeding - I'm just amazed that you could express so efficiently that early on. I don't know anyone that has managed it so I apologise for assuming

no LB - it is implied in the op but doesn't actually explicitly state that they changed their minds.

People don't have DC at weddings for all sorts of reasons, space and cost being some of them. One friend of mine had only one child, her goddaughter who was also a flower girl, at her wedding - if she had allowed all others there would have been 40 there. That makes an appreciable difference and she would not have been able to use her extremely special-and-relevant-to-her-and-her-DH's chosen venue with the extra numbers. Even she allowed a BF baby in as well though!

I am fascinated by the legalities of anyone being able to attend a wedding ceremony - presumably that only applies to church weddings where there are usually no constraints on numbers? I was limited to 50 max in my registry office, so no random strangers were going to make it in to my wedding ceremony!

If it were me (and I'm not ever planning to get married), I would choose who I wanted to be there first and then choose the venue on that basis. It wouldn't occur to me to plan on the basis of the parents and think of the children as an afterthought. I think that's just the way my life works - the kids are always there and it would seem actually a bit rude to exclude them.

Actually I have had childless friends ask if I were planning on bringing DC to their weddings - I assume because it would affect numbers but I never felt any pressure to leave them behind.

You can't just barge into registry offices but yes in theory anyone can go to a wedding (or a funeral I think) at a church although I'm not sure you could really do that at big society weddings - I can't imagine them letting any old bod into charles and di's wedding

fire regs definitely but also space in my case - with 50 in there it was very snug! Couldn't have got any more in easily without them standing in the central aisle.

sorry, to clarify between gerbil and thumbwitch: i should have that by 'they seemed ok with it' i meant HE was ok with it - we had conversation with groom way back when that at the time of their wedding all my family will be away (on a regular family affair that DH and i are obviously missing this year due to new baby), and therefore there would be no-one suitable to take the newbie, in the event i find that i am able to leave him. it is only in the last few weeks (when i guess they are finalising guest lists and stuff) that they've been hammering the no children rule home, and then we got the phone call. read into that what you will.

compo - sorry i didnt answer you - dh is actually more put out by this than me and feels he doesnt want to attend a wedding his wife and child arent welcome at - especially as we were welcome at one point and now arent! plus he's very honourable and wants to be of help to me since my family will not be around to lend a hand with DS and new baby at that time. i take help gratefully whenever i can get it frankly!

thanks for the clarification, alanna - so you're all going to give it a miss then? Probably the best thing to do under the circs, I would think. I suppose they do realise they don't have to provide a meal for the baby or include he/she in the head count?

I understand your annoyance but it is quite simple. Your Dh goes alone.

He doesn't particularly want to, Fab. See a couple of posts above yours.

OP, fair dos. YANBU to be annoyed by them changing their minds. In your position, I'd send a polite refusal and spend the time, money and energy that would have gone into attending the wedding in having a good time with your DH and DCs.

LadyBiscuit (at risk of derailing), sorry for being snippy. All credit for my efficient expressing has to go to my awesome HV - this was over 20 years ago, when BF wasn't really the done thing, but she spent a fortnight getting me really well established (effectively told me I shouldn't be doing anything other than lying around feeding for the first two weeks until feeding was properly established) and then I started expressing from about six weeks. Couldn't keep up the XBF after about 14 weeks though (though fed at night till about nine months), but glad I did it for as long as I could.

Yeah definitely! Luckily we had a room so could get some privacy. Was a bit of a pain but very necessary. Managed to get away with no painful engorgement/mastitis or anything though.

I would encourage your dh to go if I were you, to be honest. It sounds as though the groom will be so pleased to see him. Also, "if I can't take the baby I'm feeding then I won't be able to come" makes sense by itself as a reason not to go (or will do eventually to most sensible people, if they end up having kids), but "if I can't take my wife I won't be able to come" just comes across as a wee bit huffy. Why not be the better person here...

Ok, I only read the first few posts yesterday and then got back to it only just now... read back a few posts so I apologize for what I may have missed.

Just wanted to say this: yes, people who don't have children yet are completely clueless about babies and how impossible it can be to leave an EBF baby at home.

I will be the first to admit that I was one of those prize twats who said "no children at MY wedding, I don't want the ceremony spoiled by someone's wailing kid". Yes, I was being a complete tit... and only realized I was when I had DS (and then joined MN and saw the Bridezilla threads, because it had all completely slipped my mind ). And I work in the health care field and have been around plenty of babies... more shame on me. I shudder to think that we would have friends with babies think badly of us if we hadn't eventually changed our minds and said, "sod it, let's just invite everyone".

Having learned what a tit I was, I now when I think of the pictures taken of me in my wedding dress holding my friend's nearly naked baby girl (July wedding, 38 C out) and spending nearly half an hour on a lawn swing holding my new cousin-by-marriage's baby boy.

I disagree. Not all childless people are clueless and child loathing...sometimes they just don't want children there. Doesn't make them selfish. The friends whose wedding I have had to turn down in Sept have a blanket ban on children bar immediate family, they don't want to have to get picky about ages etc etc and they don't have that many friends with children anyway. Those who do have children have a choice, it is up to them whether to make arrangements to go or not. Why does it make someone selfish to not make arrangements with everyone else in mind, when it doesn't make the guest selfish to bow out gracefully if it pleases others?

I have no axe to grind, I've declined and told DH he is welcome to go. He hasn't decided yet but I don't think he well.

At our wedding last year (yes, when I was childless) there was an open invite to all and any children. As it was, the only children that came were family, as they were travelling furthest and were part of the day. Our friends etc didn't bring their children as they lived nearby and arranged childcare. There was an invite for their children but they chose to have a day/evening without them. They are not awful parents who hate their children...so it must be each to their own. Go figure.

Urgh, the end of my first para doesn't make sense...am trying to concentrate whilst DH chats on webcam to his mother.

I meant, why does it make the couple selfish to not make all arrangements around others, but it doesn't make the guest selfish to demand things are changed to suit them? (General point, not meaning the OP is demanding.)

I agree with the 'they are the hosts' etc etc completely, that was our view and our guests were at the forefront of our minds, but the vitriol towards those who do things differently is quite extreme.

Agree with Trellism and Edam. weddings are publc declarations and should be treated as such. There are other ways to get married if you want to exclude people.

With regards to the legalities. Weddings in the UK have to be held in a publicly accesible place so that in theory any member of the general public can access the wedding in order to be able to object. This applies to both church and civil weddings. Only premises with free public access can be licensed as wedding venues in England.

I was just about to type the exact post edam!! So many brides believe "It's MY day and I shall do whatever suits ME!" Well, why invite a load of people then? Elope, have a private, personal wedding where you can do what you like! I would never set out to make things difficult for my guests - it's all about wanting people you love to celebrate with you, not have a roomful of people gnashing their teeth because of your unreasonable demands IMO.

MrsC - I haven't taken my DC to all the weddings we've been invited to - sometimes it's been easier not to. But I'd prefer to have the choice.

Where was the vitriol? I didn't notice it. I despair of the trend to turn a wedding into an event which is perfect and glamorous rather than a glorious celebration surrounded by everyone big and small, attractive and ugly, young and old, and the wider implications for society.

Apart from calling people who suddenly change the rules on people with young babies bridezillas I haven't seen a huge amount of vitriol.

Haven't read all the posts, but I was in a very simialr position with DD. She was born 20 days before my (now) SIL's wedding. SIL had been adamant from the outset it would be a child-free wedding and I remained happy to accept her decision as it was her day. However, as soon as we found out I was expecting, SIL was determined DD would be at the wedding. So for me, it all worked out as I was able to go to the wedding with DD there. Having said that, I would still have respected her decision if she'd stood by her no children policy.

While I think op's friends are putting yher in a difficult position, I can see from their point that a new born baby at the wedding may be a distraction from their big day. I know my DD got a lot of attention at SIL's wedding, but thankfully she was just so excited at having her neice there as an honorary bridesmaid, it wasn't a problem for her.

This all sounds bonkers. We got married last year and invited children. I can't imagine not allowing newborn babies to come - for the people who have said, it's the bride and groom's money, what difference does having an 8 week old baby make? Our reception certainly only charged for meals rather than number of actual humans in the room!

I should also add that we just loved having all the children there. Our wedding was a family (real family/church family/friends) occasion so it would have been odd not to have them there. I love the photos of them all playing on the grass outside.

My nice little sis was already planning what ds1 and 2 would eat at her wedding about a year beforehand. She will be married as a student - none of her friends have kids - but it wouldn't occur to her not to invite them...and my favourite recent wedding was the (very grown up!) 2nd marriage of FiL aged 60 - half a dozen under-five year olds at the ceremony...their friends and family...I guess people just have different priorities.
DH went alone to several weddings when ds1 was little - but it wasn't a big thing (so far as I know). He had a nice relaxed day, spoke to friends, instead of keeping an eye on the dc fo once.
I would only be cross if I was being put under pressure to leave the dc to come to a wedding.