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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

... to think that a 5 year old looking after a 3 year old is a bit dodgy?

145 replies

joannabaranna · 15/05/2010 19:18

Just found a very slight acquaintance's 2 kids (5 and 3!) playing in the street with their front door open. Said their dad had just gone out to the car and they'd been waiting for him to get back. They trotted off to the car park to look for him (leaving the front door wide open) but he was nowhere in sight. My 2 year old started playing with them on the pavement and I asked the 5 year old whether he had any older brothers, sisters, mum etc at home - no, mum was away and he was the oldest. After about 25 minutes I thought I'd leave a note on the door for the dad and take them to our house just up the street for tea (it was 6pm). They got me a paper and pen and I left a short note saying "Kids are at [address] - they weren't sure where you were - found them in the street!" As I was leaving the note on the door the dad got back, pretty pissed off to see me there, tore the note off the door and said "he knows he's not supposed to go out of the front door". House, by the way, was a tip. He had told them he was going out to the car and had gone to the shops instead.

I'm inclined not to do anything about it but it makes me uncomfortable... Any thoughts?

OP posts:
fyimate · 15/05/2010 22:44

scottishmummy has a point. He probably will be mad and embarrassed but either way he wont like you popping round...I think offerring him a hand is great it's just how you go about it that's important. Dont forget men arent like women, they speak in different tones and often see women as nosy.

Maybe it's better to approach him in the park? Start out innocent enough, make it all very casual and maybe try point out others may call SS but you know what it's like having kids so if ever he needs to 'pop out' he can give you a knock to watch the kids? etc etc

(that's the most 'casual' way of putting it that I can think of without annoying him!)
:P

fyimate · 15/05/2010 22:45

Oh and another point, you have no idea of the situation with the mum, calling her maybe a bad idea?

scottishmummy · 15/05/2010 22:46

unrealistic twee advice.traipse over and discuss with man who was "pretty pissed off to see op there".and i suppose this dialogue will be so meaningful.you dont know him or family circumstances id be cautious approaching anyone in those circumstances to comment on their parenting style

some of you live in la la land

if worried call sw duty team

MrsGravy · 15/05/2010 22:50

I'm actually really, really surprised that people think it's 'curtain twitchy' to call Social Services. I don't mean that I think this man should have his kids taken away or anything drastic like that, but simply that he wasn't that amenable to the OP helping out and she therefore has absolutely no way of finding out whether this a one off or if the kids are potentially being neglected. It needs investigating properly and the OP can't do that.

The kids are so young. If they were 7 and 5 even I'd have a slightly different perspective on it. Perhaps my 3 and 5 year old are unusually immature but they'd not be able to phone for help/cross a road safely/take care of themselves in any way really if they were left alone. FWIW a work colleague had a vist from social services for leaving her then 5 yo alone in the car (for a disputed length of time) - someone had reported her. No-one came hammering the door down and taking the boy away, she wasn't plagued by unwelcome social workers, they had a lengthy chat to suss the parents out, warned her not to leave him alone again and that was that.

sleepingsowell · 15/05/2010 22:52

Call SS and don't agonise. He shouldn't be leaving his children in that vulnerable a position for that amount of time and if he gets a phone call from a SW then there's at least a chance that he will not feel so free to do this again.

There's a time for neighbourly 'drop em with me if you need to' and there's a time for protecting children, imo. Leaving kids that age for that time is neglectful and wants picking up on. By all means make your offer to him as well but we need to not hold back on taking action to protect children.

SrStanislaus · 15/05/2010 22:52

I certainly dont live in Lala land .
Council estate dweller and Jobcentre employee and never been called twee in my life .
I would definitely go in the circumstances outlined by OP. Sometimes people just need to know there are others taking an interest.
But I would not contact SW duty team at this time.

scottishmummy · 15/05/2010 22:57

why do you need to explain your tenancy and job?my contention is such any input may provoke a man described as pissed off.realistically hes not so likely to say well mighty grateful neighbour,thanks. twee to assume a wee word and he will remediate his behaviours.not get the hump

any safeguarding issue i'd always call sw,they then do assessment and determine course of action

TheCrackFox · 15/05/2010 23:00

I reported someone under similar circumstances and TBH I felt like a prize cow.

The social worker was lovely to me and I explained how bad I felt (for grassing someone up) and she said "imagine how bad you would feel if you hadn't phoned and something happened?"

RabsGirlx · 15/05/2010 23:13

i would have done the same as the op. anything could of happened to those children. their father should be gratefull that you were looking out for them. their parents seem irrisponsible to me. my ds is nearly 3and there is no way i that would leave him in the street or house alone. it is terrifiying to think that it goes on.

nighbynight · 15/05/2010 23:16

scottishmummy - you are being a bit unimaginitive. It is very likely to make a difference to the fathers behaviour if he knows he is being observed. The OP is not twee, she comes across as a nice neighbour.

mrsbean78 · 15/05/2010 23:18

If I, as a HCP, phone a child's home and a child answers and tells me that their parent is not at home, I am obliged to phone the police. It is illegal to leave young minors unsupervised in the house afaik.

scottishmummy · 15/05/2010 23:19

you not following not calling op twee.do keep up

this suggestion by others as to pop over and wee word to mr pissed off man about his kids.well that is twee and potentially risky

call sw duty this is safeguarding issue

mrsbean78 · 15/05/2010 23:20

Nine children in my trust have died because of house fires that occurred in houses where there were no adults present. These adults have been tried for manslaughter.

Chloe55 · 15/05/2010 23:22

I would let SS know for definite. As people have said, their main intention is to help the parent care responsibly for their children, not take them away or cause a family uproar.

A friend of mine was visited by SS as her 5 snuck out whilst friend had fallen asleep on the sofa due to exhaustion from being up with her daughter. The police were the ones to return her daughter home after she had rung them when she realised she was gone. Her house is and has always been a bloody state which I get on at her for but don't think she will ever change in that department. Anyway, SS came out, advised her to clean up a bit and let her know they were always there if she needed them.

I know the circumstances are different but SS didn't jump to any conclusions and were actually very kind to her.

fyimate · 15/05/2010 23:26

Maybe SS were kind but this man may put two and two together and know the op called SS and be EXTREMELY pissed off. Some people really do NOT like the SS and if they know who called them.... gulp

I suppose you have to assess the situation, and do what you think is best, approach him or call SS.

maktaitai · 15/05/2010 23:27

I dunno. My best friend remembers well being aged 4 and accompanying her brother aged 2 down the pavement of their road on a little trolley thing on a regular basis. They were not neglected children. Community standards may be different these days but I don't really think you should do anything. However, I would agree that I would keep a beady eye out and look for opportunities to help.

No harm that he found that he has neighbours who take an interest. I think that's already been helpful and would leave it there for now.

twinklingfairy · 15/05/2010 23:28

I happen to agree with scottishmummy, I would certainly not be going anywhere near the man.
I am not sure what I would do, but to go round to his house and question/quiz him, even with the nicest of intentions is unlikely to be recieved well, by an man who seemed 'pretty pissed off'.
You would be a very brave woman, IMO.
Meeting in the park would, perhaps, be a better solution.
Though still not one I would undertake.

I would prob go to my HV rather than SS. They are scary people.
The HV could just 'pop' by for a wee chat.

nighbynight · 15/05/2010 23:28

scottishmummy, you are rude and patronising, and wrong about duty. Its your duty if you dont live in a community. If you live in a community, you get involved, before passing the buck. SS arent a magic wand.

Chloe55 · 15/05/2010 23:28

I agree fyi, he is obviously going to know it was the OP who called them but I couldn't live with the guilt should something happen to the little ones left on there own

TopsyKretts · 15/05/2010 23:31

I think I would rather try the friendly concern approach before risking all-out war on account of obviously having called SS. If you have to, then you have to, but try a quiet word before a sledgehammer.

scottishmummy · 15/05/2010 23:32

safeguarding by today standards overrides previous considered acceptable - so saying well acceptable in the 80's isnt an excuse

incidentally can report to duty sw anonymously

twinklingfairy · 15/05/2010 23:32

She's abrupt is all, and to the point.
And she does have one.
That can't be disputed.

ShinyAndNew · 15/05/2010 23:34

I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation. Do you know where mum is/how long she is gone for? Could this be a man who is not used to being left alone with the children and has over estimated their capabilities? Did the house look like it has never been cleaned or could it be mess that the father is not coping with since mum went away a few days ago?

Would you feel comfortable talking to the mum when she gets back? I'm betting she would be livid if she knew what had happened.

scottishmummy · 15/05/2010 23:34

concerned about safeguarding and welfare id report concerns.wouldnt hesitate

mrsbean78 · 15/05/2010 23:35

The 'friendly concern' approach allows people who are neglecting or abusing their kids to perpetuate their behaviour.

My father's family had a visit from a 'kindly neighbour' who was 'concerned' about the noises coming from the home. My grandfather invited said neighbour in for a chat and a cup of tea and they cleared up all their 'misunderstanding' and nothing more was ever done about it.

My grandfather was sexually abusing all the girls in his house and beating the boys to within an inch of their lives. My grandmother used to regularly have to clean blood off the floor.

These are young children left alone for half an hour. It is NOT ACCEPTABLE and it is a safeguarding concern, best dealt with by appropriate professionals vs MNers who think that if you see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil that child neglect and abuse don't exist.

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