In not having much sympathy with a couple on £45k plus per year having some benefits cut?

[ssd]

There is loads of this on the news just now about how "middle income" families will be having some child tax credits cut and might be paying more tax. They news are showing what to me looks like comfortable off families having to do with a bit less. Is this really so bad? I know an income of £45-£50k per year might not be much in central London but will keep you in style in parts of the north, but how bad will it be? So people might have to change jobs/give up the second car/holiday at home instead of Spain every year? SO WHAT? There are plenty of us living on less than £25k a year who have had to cut back since having kids and take this as a fact of life.

I know MN is made up of mostly middle earners and I'll get pelters for this, but I don't really care. Anyone I know on a middle income can afford to give up some things _ its called life.

I always though middle earners were £17,000 up to the 20's, because that is the cut off of working tax credits which is for "low earners". £45,000 to me (not to others I appreciate) would be a high household income!

I agree with you actually. ~We only get CB and dh is taking a big hit on tax from this year. Everyone's going to be in the same boat, less well off people will get benefits such as TC cut, the better off will see less on their bottom line.

Meh. So long as the desperately poor/physically unable to work aren't significantly affected, it's fair enough.

I agree with you.

So they'll have to stop shopping in Waitrose and M&S Food and cut back on their Starbucks Cappuchions. Poor things.

People will juct have to budget better.

Maybe it will help stop our society being so money driven and materialistic and brand-conscious.

Maybe we'll stop being so self-centred and start being more of a community.

Me and DH fall into that bracket. He has a good job, I am a nursery nurse on 12k a year. I don't really know what we could give up.
We have a car (not paid for yet) but i walk to work as I don't drive.
We don't have holidays abroad.
We shop at Aldi
I buy my clothes from Primark
We don't have any debt.
We don't even have Sky.
Our biggest expense is our mortgage, as we didn't buy a house until DH came out of the RAF.
DH already pays out nearly a quarter of his wages in deductions.
This is exactly thereason why I was gutted that Cameron is in no 10.
Tax the rich, they can afford it.

nice attitude dp works all hours to earn that money he hardly sees the kids, i work part time and don't have enough to save, wish i did, hardly ever go on holiday

so we should take it on the chin then? when higher earners can still afford two homes, expensive school fees etc?

you're talking rot frankly

I think ChocHobNob is right and what the government class as middle earners is actually a lot lower than 45K. Our income is much less than this, most of it gets swallowed up by the mortgage and bills, we have one battered old car and are already doing without luxuries. Tbh the amount of child tax credit we get is so little that it won't make much difference whether we get it or not. I'm more concerned that I'll be classed as too 'well off' to take DS to the fantastic facilities at our local Surestart centre.

that's if they keep the surestart centres

totally agree, people need to realise that cuts have to be made and it is for the greater good.
yes, it isn't nice if you have been used to life s certain way but if we continue as we are the country will run itself into the ground and everyone will be lookig for where to place the blame. we all need to make changes now and like others have said, as long as those who need the help, get it then that is fine by me. i am not on a middle income but i still know that we will have to budget even more than we already do and i am fine with that. time to stop being so self focused and see the big picture.

What about those in central London? Because you know their incomes will be cut too, right?

pickledmonkey is right.

I hate it when this sort of argument kicks off, when I know people who earn 80 or 100k or more and could afford to pay more tax. I just don't buy the argument that they worked for it, so they should get to keep it: they don't need it, do they?

I'm a sahm nbut dh is a middle earner. we will in all likelyhood lose tc under new cuts. However I agree with you totally. We will adjust our spending accordingly and will be fine. We aren't well off by any means but we are certainly not badly off in comparison to some.

Forgot to say that the only 'benefits' we claim are
child benefit for DD
child tax credit for DD which is £40 a month.
I don't class child tax credit as a benefit. It's just a re-jigging of the tax allownace system.

Just because they're not on the poverty line doesn't mean they don't find those cuts as hard as anyone else. Lots of 'high income' families of £45k have their money tied up in mortgage, pensions and ISAs and for their day-to-day stuff are totally needing the special offers at Tesco or wherever and do come to count on the tax credits and have to adjust if they are cut, just like anyone else. Taking Financial responsibility means thinking of the future and ensuring there's something for a rainy day; anyone on £45 k should be doing this and saving the everyday pennies just like someone on £20 k does. Please don't assume that just because they earn more that they fritter it away on cappuccinos, that's quite insulting to the hard-working, higher-earning parents I know.

I think you'd be really lucky to find anyone earning over £45,000 who would dream of complaining about losing thier tax credits in the current climate.

So YANBU to have little sympathy but to be fair, I can't imagine earners of £45,000 asking for it!

"cuts have to be made and it is for the greater good."

Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot we elected the Communist party

Who are the rich we're all so keen to tax?

In 2009, according to ASHE, only 10% of the population earned over £44k. Only 1% of people in the UK earn over £118k.

There aren't enough of them to make a difference. Raising the tax rate just means they're more likely to move somewhere else and spend their money there instead.

Also, remember that the rich are massive net contributors already; they pay tax whilst opting out of mnay public services, they spend a lot in shops, restaurants etc, buy a lot of stuff with VAT added. They often employ people.

Frequently (not always) they are entrepreneurial, well educated and motivated.

They are also the most geographically mobile tranche of the population.

if the greater good is lining the pockets of those who are already loaded

Dh and I earn less than this together and could certainly afford cuts. But then we live out of London, do not have horrendously long and expensive commutes and bought our house during the last recession, so have a very low mortgage. I don't really feel I can pronounce on anybody else's situation.

if your income 45K income is all tied up in a mortgage and these new cuts mean you will be short money then maybe it is a case of reducing your mortgage payments or downsizing.

if someone chooses to tie up a huge chunk of their income in their mortgage that is fine but why should the whole country remain in debt and make no attempt to repay it just so these people an remain in their expensive houses? that is what i mean about being less self focused. changes have to be made by everyone because we all live here. it isn't a case anymore of someone else shouldering the loss, it has to be spread across the board.

YABU, we are a middle/high earning family we both work, me part time DH full time. We have 5 degrees between us we work bloody hard (him in telecomms me in the NHS). We have a huge mortgage and various other outgoing we certainly aren't rich by any means and we're constantly juggling money.

Whoever made the comment about "cappucinos poor things" is extremely rude and some of the comments on here sound very bitter. Why should we be penalised for working hard? However I don't mind if our CB is cut/stopped or income tax is raised. I'd sooner that than have my pay frozen which looks like it might be a reality for NHS workers under the new administration.

Maybe people should stop just moaning about it, get themselvess voted in as MPs and do the job for £20,000.

I can see your point. But what about people who earn £45,000 but aren't living together? By that I mean a father/or mother who has left the family home and the "left" person is entitled to clainm far more than if they were living as a couple even though their join earnings are still £45,000. This is a bugbear of mine and a drain on the system. Whoever tackles this problem will get my vote. It is constantly those who are respopnsible who are penalised. And I don't care how many partners you choose to have kids with, it is still your responsibility to provide for them all.