In not having much sympathy with a couple on £45k plus per year having some benefits cut?

[ssd]

There is loads of this on the news just now about how "middle income" families will be having some child tax credits cut and might be paying more tax. They news are showing what to me looks like comfortable off families having to do with a bit less. Is this really so bad? I know an income of £45-£50k per year might not be much in central London but will keep you in style in parts of the north, but how bad will it be? So people might have to change jobs/give up the second car/holiday at home instead of Spain every year? SO WHAT? There are plenty of us living on less than £25k a year who have had to cut back since having kids and take this as a fact of life.

I know MN is made up of mostly middle earners and I'll get pelters for this, but I don't really care. Anyone I know on a middle income can afford to give up some things _ its called life.

there is no point our moving

we live in a small 3 bed semi, it is worth nothing in housing terms

there is nowhere cheaper to live, what it would cost us do downsize (estate agent fees, moving costs etc) would negate any saving. Our mortgage is quite small anyway.

our bills have gone up despite the fact that both salaries were frozen last year and may well be again this year

we are fortunate that we don't have to worry about whether we will eat, and I do appreciate that beleive me, because it wasn't that long ago that we were in that position

all our "middle income" has done is made sure we can cover the costs of having our children without getting into debt... which again i am grateful for because I've been in debt most of my adult life and I know it isn't a great place to be.

When I finish uni next year (with a massive debt) and start working our combined salary will push us over this limit. I went to uni to get a better job to move out of this shit area to give my children a chance of a fair education in a better area. I wonder how better off we will be once I pay my loan, taxes, fares to work, pension, etc. DH is a self employed builder so we can't just move away to a cheaper area as all his contacts are London based. But then it was Norman Tebbit to said get on yer bike to the unemployed wasn't it - simple.

£45k does not make you rich or even vaguely well off if you live in London or the the south east.
I really don't think people get how so much more expensive everything is if you live in London - just this week, parking at airports was highlighted - £11 for the week if you live up north £90 if you live in London.

i do agree with OP - also the amount of ctc etc you get at tht level is really small relative to income - so hardly make or break money. and although it can be hard when you have bought your first house, had kids etc, even on such an income, not as much as it is if you aren't earning it in the first place!

although i do wonder if means testing CHB will just cost the government so much in administration it just wouldn't be worth bothering with.

when i went back to work after mat leave i was earning £70 less per month than i was paying in childcare. we were paying it out of savings and are very lucky we can do that but i sure as hell didn't like having to do it. but what was the other option? give up work? we know our savings wont last forever and we will more than likely never be able to buy and will probably have to rent a 2 bed soon instead of a 3 bed. but i am prepared for that, it is the way it has to be and the sooner we all accept that we cant always be comfortable then the easier it will make it for us.

i am retraining now so that i can work from home and not have the massive childcare bill. it is an adjustment to suit the situation. we wouldn't have survived financially if we didn't accept what was ahead of us and make changes.

There is a massive budget deficit. It's arisen partly through the global economic situation, partly because the financial services sector was insufficiently regulated and partly through massive government overspending without corresponding increases in productivity.

We all agree the budget deficit has to be dealt with, before we go the way of Greece. Yes?

So the issue is now, how to deal with it.

All the good points made about cappucino lifestyles not necessarily being available to those on £45k hold true, of course they do.

But precisely how is the budget deficit going to be dealt with? Don't we need to pull together a bit more and all give some stuff up?

it's classism in reverse.

The amount of hatred and frankly jealousy directed at anyone who earns more than some people really is quite nasty.

It seems that you're only allowed to not have money.

it is the way it has to be and the sooner we all accept that we cant always be comfortable then the easier it will make it for us.

Which all fine unless you see the guy down the road who's got a bad back getting his £100k mortgage interest paid for him, for the past 7 years and the single mum in your family pissing herself laugh because she's better off than you and your husband despite you both going to University and working for 15 years. That annoys people.

I disagree Edgar... our TC /CB means we break even every month.

Perhaps its because we live in a rural area - the cost of petrol/diesel is killing us. Can't move to a city though, dh works in farming.

It is people's DISPOSABLE income which should be assessed when it comes to benefits. If you have a couple with combined earnings of £45k, they could easily be paying £10k+ on childcare, £5k on transport to work, £2k on food/clothes etc for work, £12k on mortgage, £1.5k council tax, £12k income tax/NI, £1.2k gas/elec, £7k food, £.5k clothes/shoes, £1k phones/net, plus the millions of extra little things which you need to pay for sometimes (repairs, birthdays/xmas, non-work travel, prescriptions).

Add it up, without top up benefits it doesnt work!

i think those posters who are making accusations of hatred and jealousy are being a tad oversensitive.(and a bit big headed to assume those with less are jealous of them)

Agree with you to a large extent wannabe.

There is an awful lot of competitive financial suffering displayed on MN - who has it hardest? And of course all the people complaining that they can't afford to cook a healthy meal, or turn on the heating, can presumably afford a pc and internet .

Quattro writes sense as usual.

Thankfully, most of the political slagging off has declined here.

What we have is now. And now means a coalition government. The two men running it will do anything for power, so don't expect that coalition to fail anytime soon.

They are going to make cuts and big ones.

Everyone but the very rich will be affected.

The time for moaning is over. It's time to deal.

Try to minimise debts. Get retraining if possible.

Look at immigrating if it's for you.

But the tax credits and benefits are going to get cut back no matter what your income level.

Hear hear expat.

People on a lot less have to pay for mortgages/food etc too though. They just have to eat cheaper food/live in smaller houses. And I say that as a family with over £45k income.

thestranger - "the female nature"?

I think that's just sexism, sorry.

If men were disagreeing vehemently with each other, you'd call it debate.

Which it is.

But if women debate, they get told it's because they're Bad People. Because we're all supposed to sit around cross-stitching and simpering, one assumes

(advance apologies to any keen cross-stitchers)

I agree completely wannabe the vitriol directed and those who work hard and earn (a bit) more makes me .

I have a friend who'd a journalist who earns very little it's shit of course and is crap how few job opportunities there are for her ATM. But she's so venomous about another friend of ours who lives in London who earns serious ££££££. The thing is my God he works for it 12 hour days AT LEAST all the time, I don't begrudge him his cash at all, he's earned it.

"Which all fine unless you see the guy down the road who's got a bad back getting his £100k mortgage interest paid for him, for the past 7 years and the single mum in your family pissing herself laugh because she's better off than you and your husband despite you both going to University and working for 15 years. That annoys people"

i totally get that. it is annoying, but letting it continue to do do, rather than accepting the situation and doing what you can to make yourself comfortable, will make the whole thing so much harder.

I also live in Edinburgh which is incredibly expensive, and have a mortgage etc, but I would be lying and would be ashamed to say I couldn't cope without £40 a month.

And they don't care if/that you have debts from university, or debt in general, or a big mortgage, or XYZ.

They have a deficit. The Treasury is being an enormous amount of money to service the debt, not to mention the principle on it.

They have to make it up or go the way of Greece, and it ain't gonna be their cronies who do it.

It'll be me and you.

It always is.

They have to make cuts and, as with income tax, they won't be taking into consideration what your disposbable income is. They can't. That's impossible.

So best to see where you can maximise it now and take what steps you can or make some new ones.