In not having much sympathy with a couple on £45k plus per year having some benefits cut?

[ssd]

There is loads of this on the news just now about how "middle income" families will be having some child tax credits cut and might be paying more tax. They news are showing what to me looks like comfortable off families having to do with a bit less. Is this really so bad? I know an income of £45-£50k per year might not be much in central London but will keep you in style in parts of the north, but how bad will it be? So people might have to change jobs/give up the second car/holiday at home instead of Spain every year? SO WHAT? There are plenty of us living on less than £25k a year who have had to cut back since having kids and take this as a fact of life.

I know MN is made up of mostly middle earners and I'll get pelters for this, but I don't really care. Anyone I know on a middle income can afford to give up some things _ its called life.

No CHEEKY I'm not 21 and living at home but I have just done a little experiment on www.entitledto.co.uk and you are being topped up to at least £25k and that's without me knowing what your rent is so I left that out.

£12k wouldn't pay for your food, tights, bus fare and lunches if you were working full time and trying to support yourself.

CPS, my bf is in the same situation as you. I know exactly how much she gets. She a sahm, 3dc, dh earning 13k.

I Do when you are posting about the "luxury" of being a SAHM when your on a low income, you arn't judging people like me.
I am a sahm, dd is 15 and has severe cp.
if I went to work she would have to go into residential care(as I would never earn enough to pay for the childcare needed and wouldn't be able to cope with her care and working FT)
we have a van(mobility) oh and cable......but hey ho, judge away.

agree with Wannabe (am on page 3 so haen't read it all)

I hate all this competitiveness about who has it better/who has it worse.

Life isn't black and white no matter whether you're on benefits or on 100k a year. Life has too many variables to make it so cut and dried.

As has been said - we're all going to feel the squeeze, rather than bickering about it and saying how much worse A has it than B surely now is the time we should be supporting each other - helping each other.

Maybe bring back a bit of of the supportive community spirit/nice society that used to exist in this country - where people helped each other out instead of being all "me me me" - I'm not relishing seeing seeing middle income earners suffer any more than anyone else.

'One car is hard work when you are used to two. '

That sums it up. What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

Well said mamatomany. I'm sick of all this bleeding heart stuff. Any family who can afford to have a parent at home, run a car, and even afford luxuries like sky is no way living on 12k. They are living on a small earned income and massive top ups.

I hate these threads and I can't be arsed to read the whole thing.

It seems as if some of those on lower incomes really resent those of us who aren't. For the record, I won't lose any benefits because I don't receive any BUT I work full time and pay taxes accordingly. I voted Labour as I wanted to protect those on lower incomes than mine - including those earning up to 50k. Threads like this make me think "oh fuck it, I'll just look after myself then".

Just because someone has a higher income than you do does not mean that they're not struggling to keep up with their own mortgage payments or debts. Everyone pretty much lives to their income and has budgetted accordingly.

By violethill Sat 15-May-10 10:59:57
One parent at home, sky TV and a car! On 12k a year! This gets better and better!

So people living on £12k a year shouldnt have a car is that what you are saying? Bullshit. A Family can LIVE on £12k a year, people who earn £40k dont seem to think this. Probably cos they have never tried it, we live within our means, we have spare left on a week so why not treat ourselves to ''luxury sky''.

Some people need to get their heads out of their arses and smell the coffee and realise that just because low earning income families smight not get over £15k a year but doesnt mean they have to still live at home or struggle because of upsetting some families who cant maybe afford certain things other low earning families can have a month. But if i was to go out to work full time during the day, we would be worse off due to child care prices, to have my two boys in nursery full time 5 days a week is over £1k. It wouldnt be worth both parents working, we have tried it and we was in such shit because of it. So dont start preaching to me about having one parent at home.

Some people are so sour because they cant stay at home with their children, i would love to have both of us working but i choose to stay at home to look after them because of the fees, thats why im going out to work in the evenings and sundays.

By mamatomany Sat 15-May-10 11:02:30
No CHEEKY I'm not 21 and living at home but I have just done a little experiment on www.entitledto.co.uk and you are being topped up to at least £25k and that's without me knowing what your rent is so I left that out.

How the hell could you have done that as you do not know what my last years income was?!? Without that crutial information, you couldnt have possible worked that out and ftr i get just under £30 per week in CTC & WTC.

Here it is again. Yeah, we must be rich

We have a modest (but still reasonably expensive) mortgage

Pay £250 council tax/mth

Have 2 cars- one 13 years old, the other 6 years old. If we give up one, I will need to stop working. Petrol costs affect us hugely, as DH drives 100 miles a day to work and back.

have booked a holiday abroad for the first time since having the dc, for which we have been saving like mad, selling stuff on ebay etc

2 children in childcare when I work

By the time we pay bills etc and I buy food, there is really not much left. I am currently wearing clothes I have had for 7 years. We slashed our sky package to basic a couple of years ago (but unfortunately sky is the only way we can get a TV signal, due to trees) We never go out- laughing at the thought of popping out for a cappucino, honestly cannot remember the last time. I don't go into town at all, as I know I can't afford to spend, so would rather not be tempted. It feels like a slog, but we are ok.

However when I hear people telling me we earn too much, I really do want to just chuck in the towel. Give up work. earn less- its looking like it will soon cost me more to work than not, when you factor in travel costs, nursery costs (wonder how long it will be before Gvmt get rid of assisted funding for over 3's?) and higher tax rates.

Yup. All we "middle earners" will have to tighten our belts. So we'll not spend any money. Which, as Britain has become a service industry, means people in those jobs will have noone to serve. Lots of small businesses going under, more unemployment. Yep- that's definitely the way to go

A joint income of 45k in london - morgage payments on an AVERAGE (likely very small) family home or even flat - well over £1000. Full time childcare costs - nearly £1000. Travelcard costs - well over £100 a month. Then add on utitlities, council tax etc. Oh and factor in the fact that these salaries will prob be frozen (it's quite a typical NHS salary....) but NI and VAT will rise. Doesn;t leave much left over for cappucinos TBH.
Scrap the morgage and rent instead - costs the same!
Give up work to get rid of childcare costs - well that's a hard worked for career down the pan.
I have no problem with higher taxation to make a fairer society - it works very well in Scandinavia. But I do have a huge problem being forced to dig us out of a crisis caused by bankers and people who thought buying everything on credit (and I mean luxuries, not food)was an acceptable way to live.
The NHS really struggles to recruit in London for precisely this reason. In theory everyone could move to a cheaper more managable area. And the health service in London would collapse!

Did I read it correctly that I may be stopped from using my Surestart centre if I earn too much??????????????

i must be odd, beacuse I feel sympathy with anyone who will struggle due to cuts whetever thier income.
just pissed of with the judging of low income SAHM

Hear hear jooly.

CPS, you aren't living off 12k though are you? Please factor in the ct, wt and cb. Bullshit about not affording the childcare because the majority would be paid for if you didn't earn a lot.

How is this country right when someone can be a sahm when the dh earns 12k.

2shoes - thats the joys of a prenting forum and the SAHM vs WP

2shoes - no ou're not odd - well if you are I am too as I feel the same way.

Doesn't matter whether you're on benefits on a "good" wage, if you have to make cuts, change the way you live, it's hard.

There is also a lot more help towards childcare costs these days than at any point in the past. If you are a low earner, you'll get a money towards it. Plus a certain amount of free hours from 3 years up

By GeekOfTheWeek Sat 15-May-10 11:10:47
CPS, you aren't living off 12k though are you? Please factor in the ct, wt and cb. Bullshit about not affording the childcare because the majority would be paid for if you didn't earn a lot.

How is this country right when someone can be a sahm when the dh earns 12k.

OK. Let me tell you, i was working, my DH got a job, as he was the SAHP. We arranged for child care, we found a nursery on my way to work, sorted it all out. We was told we have to pay £1245 in 4 DAYS to secure the childrens place. We called Tax Creds who said we would get 80% i think paid, THAT wouldnt have been paid UNTIL MAY 26th. So we had no choice but to change our plans. My DH didnt start his new job. I stayed at work, then we decided to would stop at home (mainly due to illness, i couldnt continue at work) and my DH went back out to work.

We are ok now, but before March, i was borrowing off family, friends, etc etc, we didnt have sky for 2 months. We hardly had any food, because my wage was low, we had little TC like now and we was sturggling to keep our head above water. So until someone has been in that situation, dont come preaching to me about what i earn/get because no on on here knows jack shit about what i get and dont get.

Cheeky:

You're not living in 12k a year though are you?
You've only been doing it since March
good luck with your interview

This is so depressing - arguing over what is a luxury and resenting one another for having nice things as though we can't wait for the hoi polloi of the UK to be returned to their rightful position of struggling for essentials and having to doff their caps to the properly rich who can buy and sel; all of us.

Why should I take any pleasure from a family with four boys not being able to afford their Sky Sports package (something I consider an unaffordable waste of time)?

Surely we can (as a people) consider where it is fair to make cuts without losing sympathy for people affected by them?

If the OP's spite and selfishness is typical, we're all fucked.