...to think moving to an island when 7 months PG with 1st Dc is a bit bonkers?

[Miffster]

My DH hates his job, especially the horrific hours (evenings, weekends, often all-nighters) and now we're expecting our 1st DC in December, it's proved the catalyst for a major life rethink. He's very keen to have better work/life balance and spend more time at home and so he has been to see a recruitment consultant.

The recruitment consultant has told him with his experience and qualifications, he could get a job working in Grand Cayman, with a big payrise and tax free salary - much more money than he could earn in the UK. Even though cost of living there is huge, we could still save like mad and pay off chunk of mortgage/ buy a 2+ bed flat in UK on our return (we have a 1 bed London flat at the mo - not ideal but can't afford bigger).

Sounds amazing? Well, yes. But I'm a tad worried about heading out there in mid-September, 28 weeks PG (the earliest I could start mat leave) slap-bang in the middle of the hurricane season, in order to find a place to live, make a whole new network of friends, find an OB/GYN/midwife/GP (which we'd have to pay for, and that's likely to be $5000-$9000 for the pre/antenatal care and delivery assuming there are no complications with me or the babe - we don't have US health insurance and US health insurance want 10 months membership before they will fork out for birthcare). There's a UK/US expat community there, and they have antenatal yoga etc, I'm sure I could make mum-friends but...hmmm.

Problem is, I've not had a baby before, so I just don't know what it will be like for me and DH. Even assuming there are no complications with me and babe ( I'm 39, does that make me high-risk?), I'm quite worried about the isolation, no friends/family, and then looking after a tiny newborn on a hot, hurricane-prone island (it's not like I can really take the baba down the beach for the day).

So I think the whole project sounds a bit ambitious and am dithering.

It might be possible to accept the job and fly out when the baby is 4-6 months next year. Do you think that would be a good idea?

I've been to Grand Cayman before, but that was on honeymoon. Bit different to actually going and living there! I have lived abroad before (worked on a Greek island & Poland as a TEFL teacher in my 20's for a year each time). I also grew up in a small village so I know what it's like in a goldfish bowl and I'm quite good at making friends - but that's when I'm not hugely pregnant/new-parent hormonal/shattered.

My mates, who don't have kids, all say 'go! sounds amazing!'. But I want the opinion of women with children, please!

If you were me, what would you do?

Sorry long post!

Second try - Go to 'the Rest of the World' then Cayman.

britishexpats.com/

I'd go for it! It's a beautiful place, and expat commumnities can be wonderful for children...

Jealous, moi?

Don't do it, not now or when babe is 4 or so months.

It's just not the time.

Do you like thunder storms? cause they have extreme ones there.

As far as the pressures of doing it whilst pregnant, yes, you will need a net work of support, you can read about how tired, hormonal etc you will be but nothing other then having a baby will explain how life changing it is, and yes at 39 (I've had mine at 37 and 40) there are more health risks.

You need to focus on your needs that way you will also be focusing on babe's needs.

Go and go now. joke. no seriously, i often find that its worth having the worst possible scenario discussions with dh.
and then you find you can cope with anything.
say, you get there and you , with very young baby, are so lonely and can't cope. what could you do ? could dh continue working and you fly home to stay with your sister for a month ?
discuss all the problems. soon they are no longer problems.
go girl.

My friend moved to a tropical island at 6 months, spent 3 months on a mattress under the aircon crying and hasn't really settled. But we do'nt have a strong expat community.

Do think about the time of year you're going, because arriving in full summer is not a good idea, even if not pregnant!

Also think about shipping things- do you want them there when you arrive so you have to pack now or after you get there? Try to make a contact with an expat who lives where you will so they can tell you about the area, shops, good brands in the supermarket etc as you won't have the time or patience for trial
and error.

Will you want to have another child? Because I assume you would want one soon othewise it'd be very high risk so you'd be there with toddler & pregnant or toddler & newborn and moving back would be trickier plus you've pointed out the exhorbitant cost of birthing there!

What will you do with your UK property and affairs? Expatting takes time and there are lots of ends to tie up. If you have baby there will you be able to get a passport for them from the embassy/consulate?

Don't be blinded by the fact it's Grand Cayman - would you move house at that stage?

I agree about talking it over lots with your DH. I wish I'd talked this move over more but it sounded good on paper...

Come to the British Virgin Islands instead! I'll be your friend . Loads of lawyer jobs here...

FrakkedUpTheElection mentioning eduring the heat whilst pregnent is really sensible. I put up with an intense heat wave with both my pregnancies, it was awful. Having a baby in you is like carrying around a hot water bottle anyway but when it's really hot. . .

The second time I had to stay in and carry an electric fan from room to room in my house.

In Ireland! Can't imagine how it would be in Grand Cayman.

I know lots of posters here are saying go for it but I think it's easier said than done.

Yes it is always easier said than done. But will you look back in 5 years time when DC are at school and it's even more of an upheaval and think 'what if'?

It's not going to be forever. Expat communities are often friendlier and keener to get together and do stuff than uk communities in my experience. I grew up moving from country to country, my mum gave birth to us all abroad in varying degrees of heat (and hurricane seasons!) and not only is it doable, it can be really great fun.

If it weren't for the cost of the maternity care I'd say go pre-baby, and meet other pg ladies at clinics, antenatal classes etc. If you go when baby is 16 weeks old-ish, make sure you're very organised as regards your shipment etc. Having a baby is the perfect opportunity to meet people.

I would go for it tbh!

Thanks for the further excellent replies. Have been researching and thinking a lot. Have found a fantastically helpful website.
http://www.caymannewresident.com/

Frakked, late Aug/early September is the only time I could move, because that is the earliest I could leave my work on maternity leave (plus adding in all my holiday not taken this year). After September ends, I think I will be too big too fly. Babe is due December 14th. Plus, new intake expats are expected to fly out in Sept and start Sept/Oct.

Seashore I think it's hot all year round, tbf, so it doesn't make much of a difference when you fly out there, though June/July are the most humid. Tourist high season is November- March. In September there is a high risk of hurricanes, and tropical storms. But houses and flats there are built with this in mind. They all have aircon as do cars.

I don't think I'd be racing about much in the heat having landed, but provided I moved slowly and rested lots, I think I could drive round the island with DH, find a place to live and move in whilst in 3rd trimester.

Shipping things: the plan is to rent out our London flat, so we'd leave it pretty much furnished, and just ship out personal effects - linen, cushions, pictures, clothes, some books, favourite pots and pans etc. DH's higher salary would go towards paying off the mortgage faster so we could come back and either move back in to our flat, or sell it.

All flats and houses out there are rented fully furnished. Employers will put you up in a rented furnished apartment for 2-4 weeks whilst you look for somewhere to settle in, buy second hand cars etc. They will also help you find somewhere. they should also put you on their healthcare plan, though I'm not sure that birth would be covered. Babies born to expats on the island can apply for their own passports and US Visas and this process is quite straightforward.I think it would be much easier to search for a flat when pg, than with a babe in arms.

We would have to move house anyway: the flat we own in London is just not suitable to have a newborn in. There isn't even space to put a cot by the bed, unless it is right next to a radiator, the flat has no second bedroom that could be used as a nursery. So whatever happens, I will have to move house this year.

Renting London flat and flying to Cayman is in some ways an easier option than trying to do up flat, put it on market, and sell it before the end of the year (stressful and not very likely. And if we don't sell in time, then how will we market it when viewers come round to find me and a newborn and all the baby kit everywhere?)

And if we stay in the UK, and move home, I am not sure how we could afford a family sized house, with me on mat leave and then probably not returning to work. We would like to have more than 1 and at nearly 40 when babe 1 is to be born, there's not time to hang about. I think it would be easier to be a SAHM, easier to conceive a second (we'd barely see each other if he took another high-pressure long hours city legal job) and easier to get domestic help and childcare on the island.

So on balance I now think, however hard it is to be heavily pregnant/have just given birth and on a small island, it would get easier...I'd be stuck at home when newborn arrives anyway, so why not be prostrate on the sofa in Cayman, than in Hackney? In Hackney I could not afford home help, but over there we could. It will probably be pretty tough wherever I am. But I have got through some very tough times before in my life and I think I would survive, learn to cope and eventually thrive.

Tolalola, thanks! What's it like on the BVI, for legals and legal spouses?

I would consider it, it sounds like a good opportunity. You could return if you found that it didn't suit you.

Best of luck, it'll be a great adventure.It's true home will always be here! Go for it!

ooh yeah, go go go! You sound very rational. Home will always be there- and so will MN!

BVI is very similar to Cayman in terms of the offshore finance/legal industries. There is a big expat community here.

We don't have the 7 year thing like Cayman, so quite a lot of people stay fairly long term, but there are lots on 2-3 year contracts as well.

It's possible for spouses to work as long as they get a job before they come into the BVI. If they come in as a dependent it's really hard to transfer status to working. Would you want to work, ideally? What do you do?

At the moment I work in advertising sales for a big multimedia owner, which is quite boring but a good place to be during a recession. I'm also a freelance writer, who has published a book and quite a few articles in the national press, various mags etc. But I took a decision 2 years ago that this was a crap time to be freelancing, and I wanted to be employed somewhere with good maternity benefits if pregnant. So I cynically returned to advertising.

I would be happy not to work for first few years of child's life ( apart from freelance writing but I don't need a work permit to do that, presumably, if I am commissioned by UK editors and filing copy from abroad.) With DH on a taxfree salary, we coudl afford for me to be a SAHM and concentrate on baba (and possibly having another baba in short order, in shallah).

We did think of the BVI and tbh if DH is offered a good job there we'd probably go. It just seemed that all the jobs were in Cayman right now.

I would def go before baby then if you have to move anyway and all the expats start in Sept/Oct - people here arrive for Sept too and I came end Dec so everyone had already formed friendship groups/a social life that I wasn't part of. Always best to go with the flow.

So on balance, given your situation anyway and the fact that my 'doom' post didn't put you off I would go and go as early as you can!

Contrary to what most people have said, I would wait till baby is a bit older (perhaps 3 months?) to move over there.

Several reasons for it:

1. dh can try out the job and see if he likes it enough to justify your move over there. (also if he has probation, you want to make sure he gets confirmed before uprooting!)

2. he can take care of all the logistics- finding a place to live, hooking it up with utilities, finding a doctor etc

3. you can have your baby where you feel safe and comfortable and "used to the system"

4. you can keep working a bit longer, so you can take a longer mat leave afterwards, thereby increasing the length of your "option to come back" if things don't work out.

I am speaking from experience, dh moved abroad last october to start a new job, we joined him in mid-January. It wasn't easy- and i had no new baby, although 2 dds under 4- but overall i am glad we did this way. It would have been just too hard to do it otherwise.

I hope things go well for you!

Thanks again for the replies.

I don't think we could bear to be separated and have him work out there and me join him after the birth; I would not want to give birth all alone with him far away at work.

I want him there with me as I prepare for birth, and at the birth and for the baby's first weeks. The main point of us moving is to have a better quality of life and more time together and the build up to birth is one of the most anxious and most special times of all.

If he starts next year, then it means he stays trapped in his awful job until then (because he can't really start a new job for 6 months only) - and the trouble with the current job is he has to work bonkers hours and is permanently exhausted and I never see him, which is not idea as we prepare to have our first baby.

I think we'd prefer to fly out and look for a place to rent together. All rental places come fully furnished and it would give us time to set up a nursery and order in baby things we needed, find 2nd hand cars etc. It would be quite exhausting doing all that heavily pg but surely even more exhausting doing it a few months later with a tiny baby to worry about as well?

UK NHS care is free, which is a big plus point. But the (US-style private health insurance) care out there is better. If we paid for it, with some of our savings, I would have my own (clean) room in the hospital, with a shower, and DH could stay over - compared to the post natal ward in Hackney which has a horrific reputation (although the actual birth centre is meant to be very good).

So on balance I am now quite 'sold' on the idea, having dithered in the OP. As long as DH finds a job there that he really likes and wants to do, as both of us need to be happy, then I think it will be ok.

I think the 2nd trimester will be very busy with putting our UK flat out to rent, admin, packing etc and the 3rd trimester hard going with flying out and finding a place but I still think it is do-able and the general, longterm health/lifebalance/financial benefits outweigh the temporary hardships & expenses.

I suppose there could be some kind of medical emergency. the main problem would be the expense of that, as the medical care is of a fab standard out there. But there's not much I can do about that, really.

Hi Miffister, don't know if you'll pop back here or not, but just wanted to let you know that there is a thread entitled I Want To Move Back To The UK going and without being doomy, I just thought it might be good to scan through for you because it is a real insight, it seems like a very honest thread.

Like I said, I don't want to be doomy, just thought it might be useful to you.

Thanks - where's the thread?

Oh- found it.

First off, I do have every sympathy for people who have moved abroad and are missing the UK. I did a bit when I lived abroad. But not that much. And only for a bit. The odd longing for Marmite and Radio 4, the changing seasons, but that was it.

The complaints on that thread seem to be mainly about missing friends & family desperately.

My mum is dead. My dad lives in a different city, as does my brother, SIL and their children. If I want to see them I have to get a train and it's a 2 hour journey plus travelling to station time so I see them once every 2 months, if that and talk on the phone. They don't come to see me in London, it doesn't seem to even occur to them - we have no room for anyone to stay anyway -
(although Dad sometimes calls if he has travelled up to see an art exhibition to say he's in town - usually with no notice, when I am at work). My brother is ill and being treated this summer, my SIL has 3 under 3. We'd fly out after his treatment has happened.

My sister and I see each other and talk on phone as she lives in London, but even so we don't meet up much: we both work, she is single and social, I like to chill at home.

My friends don't have kids so I'd be making new mum friends anyway. And if I'm honest, I don't see my friends that much either, we're all too busy. At the end of a working day I tend to want to go home and read and relax and cook, not go out drinking. I used to go out for drinks after work but lost interest when TTC. after 20 years of being a party girl I now like to be quiet and stay in.

My PIL also live in a totally different part of the country to us. They are both remarried. We see FIL & his family once a year, up north. We see MIL and her DH every 3-4 months, usually for a meal in town at their suggestion. Maybe MIL will want to see more of baby.

So I don't think I'm in the same boat as the mumsnetters who want to return to the UK because they miss regular family time. I might regret it, but how will I know unless I go? And how else can I spend time with my DH, and earn far more than we would in the UK? It is the logical thing to do for us at the moment, especially as have to move anyway. And I am itching for the change. It feels like the right time.

That's really good, you are certainly thinking things through, and that is the best thing to do at this stage. It's true you'll have to move anyway and most important is your time within your own family, dh having more time for you and baby will be fantastic. We left the city for much the same reasons and when confronted with a newborn I've got to say my dh having more time has made a huge difference when dealing with a colicy baby and exhaustion.

The very best of luck with the move and do let us know how things go

Hi Miffster - I saw this thread yesterday but didn't have time to respond. I lived in the Cayman Islands for a few years and had my second child out there. Like you, we had to pay for the care and birth as I was already pregnant when I went out there and weren't covered on my husband's insurance. I opted for generic care in the hospital public hospital which is up to NHS standards and in total it cost us about 2,500 dollars.

As far as living there with a baby/small children on the plus side I can say that it is very safe and very child friendly. Lots of expat wives come out and have their children there as it can be hard to find jobs and they see it as a good time/place to have their children. If you are not shy it will be easy to make friends and find some baby groups. However, lots of friendships are fairly superficial as everyone is so transient and there for a limited period of time. The beaches are great and if you are into boating, fishing and diving you'll love it over there. International schools and nurseries are of an excellent standard.

On the downside, it is hot, hot, hot. Year-round and there is no let up. This is great when you are on holiday but when you have to live in it, it can get very tiring. It is expensive, by the sounds of it your husband will be earning a good wage so might not be so much of an issue. But don't underestimate how expensive it is, no cheap flights either so anytime you want to get off the Island it will cost you a small fortune. And you will want to get off the Island (it's called Island fever) as it is very small. It gets dark between 6 and 7pm all year so no long summer evenings. I wouldn't worry too much about hurricanes, it is a bit scary at first but as you said, they are well prepared and buildings are built accordingly. And lots of companies arrange trips to Miami when there is a hurricane threat.

All in all I would say go for it, it is a fantastic experience and really quite a nice Island. I did get homesick after a few years and we moved back to the UK but I have never regretted going there!

Let me know if there is anything else you would like to know.

Thanks Seashore and thanks NestaTheodorus especially for the personal feedback from one who has done it!

I was going to PM you but you're n/a (rather than carry on bumping the thread) but wanted to ask a q about BFing: I know it's quite conservative and religious (and I'm shy about whipping out my norks anyway) but is the attitude to BFing similar to the UK? Or is it frowned upon and something that should only be done by a woman at home away from public gaze?

Well, I moved back from a posting abroad (Singapore) back the UK when my baby was 6 months old.

I'ved lived there, and Russia and spent some time in the Middle East and so was prepared for a new life found settling not too bad. But I found coming back home with a bay very very hard for all sorts of reasons (relationship with my mother, lack of money, complete change of lifestyle, uncertainty about work etc).

So yes, it could be difficult and you should be prepared for a shock.

It's not like moving just as a couple.

But that said, I would in your position do it tomorrow! Oh, and I would separate father and baby. Sometimes life if too short to not take a good opportunity.

Plus, I'm lonely back home. I was lonely out there. Might as well have a lovely climate and some cash!

Oh, and I found being pregnant in hot and humid Singapore fine, although I was expecting it to be horrible. There will be aircon.

sorry, rushed and typos. I meant I wouldn't separate husband and baby!

I can't speak for Carribbean but I worried about breastfeeding in deeply conservative Singapore (they are funny about public nudity and also has a Muslim population) and it was fine.