To be seriously worried the new govt are looking at cutting child benefit...

[cherrymama]

to 'middle class' families?What does that mean?We both work but have four kids and losing that income will seriously affect us...so please tell me IABU and that it won't happen!

some say it's because they have university debt, ivestill, others say it's because they have a big mortgage, still others have a partner who pays maintenance on a child/children from a previous relationship.

Loads of reasons ivestill.

That's the problem with all of this, people have different situations, different pasts, different responsibilities, live in different parts of teh country and so on.

Saying whether someone needs help or not triggered simply by income is rather a blunt instrument.

'Saying whether someone needs help or not triggered simply by income is rather a blunt instrument. '

What else is the government supposed to use, though, that will be as limited to fraud opportunities as possible?

I mean, they use income to determine tax levels regardless of someone's debts, prior commitments, region of country, etc.

They means test other benefits using income, again, regardless of what debts or other commitments one has.

No idea!

But it's the reason there is always such a ruck about this stuff. Two families on the same income - one will say "we don't need the benefits, ditch them" the other won't be able to manage without them.

Short of govt knowing all of everyone's circumstances (too intrusive) I don't know.

I do think that the current system is cumbersome though, and must haemorrage money. There must be a more streamlined way of doing this stuff, and doing it fairly. The money needs to go where it's needed.

Otehr problem of course is a large section of society don't believe in helping other people which hobbles the govt from doing anything too progressive.

from Imsonottellings post

"Otehr problem of course is a large section of society don't believe in helping other people"

thats the tories then

I would never ever not claim CB even if I used it to wipe my arse with on the basis that my not claiming wouldn't mean there was more in the pot for other children it would mean more in the pot MP's expenses, weapons, ID cards etc etc.
Far better if you don't need the money to claim it and then sponsor a child or donate to a charity close to your heart than to trust the government to do something meaningful with it.

Message deleted

People who earn £50k should be able to manage, I totally agree with that (and I apologies that I haven't read the whole thread) but the whole welfare state is flawed. People get more and more as they have more and more children even if they can't afford it.
No I don't think they all have the 'high' life but there has to be a limit. Someone earning £50k wouldn't necessarily be able to have lots of kids unless they paid for it but others can.
I don't think they should look at CTC or child benefit in isolation but the whole benefits system.

'its always been the same with the tories, the last 3 times they have game into government they buckled our country'

"It's called living within your means. We all have to do it as families so I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to grasp that countries have to do it too."

I live within my means, and where on my post, did I say otherwise If your going to have a pathetic dig, at least back it up!, Oops that's right you cant!

My Bil and Sil, earn about 90k between them probably more as they both get bonuses but complain they couldn't manage without the help they get for DN's nursery, and child benefit.
They have an appartment that cost about £400,000 and BIL also owns half of three houses that he rents out and I'm pretty sure doesn't declare the income.
I am that they should even get help for nursery fees.

Notso, sorry to go onto a different subject but if your BIL and SIL earn that much and you think that they shouldn't get it then the same argument could be applied to state pensions with OAPs who have lots of money?
We have to save money as a country to get out us out of the mess partly caused by the global economy and in the main caused by labour so by looking at all the different types of benefits is the only way to make it fair.

It's not a Tory policy to cut CB , it has been proposed by the Treasury to this Governemnt as well as having presented to the Labour Government.

If they do decide to cut it then it will then cost more money to deal with all the administration to start sorting out who can have it or not.

As the mother is the one who is entitled to claim it I assume that they will take into account just her earnings not household earnings.

Captain, I agree that something like this would happen irrespective of the government but why wouldn't they take the household earnings into account?

We're an overpopulated country with the population rising faster than expected. I think that if you can only afford the number of kids you have by relying on other tax payers to bail you out then you should have fewer kids and reduce the population a bit.
Getting back to people having the number of kids they can afford to support seems sensible.
Having 1 lot of kids, then changing partners and having another lot and expecting tax payers to support them is very selfish.
You can pretend you're not doing this by talking about "the state" paying child benefit, but it's really just asking other people to pay for your kids.
OK we do this with other things like education but I still think as a principle relying on other people to feed and clothe your kids is mad.

Well said 2rebecca, agree completely but I think there has to be a parachute system in place for when people are genuinely in trouble due to a change of circumstance but it is limited.

Just thinking aloud really Toootle

Anyway according to this
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article713386.ece

middle class income is £25k plus

All those people saying some one on 50K a year should be able to manage are frankly talking crap.

That is take home of about £2600 a month.

We have a modest semi worth about £120,000 - the mortgage of £800.

Other bills - council tax, gas, water etc £800 a month.

We have 2 kids - nursery fees £1000 a month.

So all that is before we eat!!

iam not saying we cant manage on it - but just pointing out it is not as much as you think especially when you dont qualify for anything else. Family alonce is needed.

Also bear in mind that work and dh works long hours in a very stressful job.

Plus there are things to consider like clothes for work etc. (Travel to work is included in the £800)

bbc news this morning was thoroughly depressing. why are all us middle earners being hit like this? it's bizarre i thought conservatives wanted to help 'hard working' families not penalise them. am so angry

My problem with any means tested benefit is this:
Always you should take into account what both parents earn (inc benefits received) whether they are together or not. They are still both entitled to support their own child.
But inevitably those who abandon their own child and then flounce on to have more children with endless partners seem to get away scot free. Whilst responsible parents struggle to cope.

Also should point out i am not saying i am entitled to state money - I can i suppose manage without but i find it galling that it is the hardworking middle bracket that is always hit.

I think there should be definately something in place so those on benefits do not benefit from reproducing. And the land/ multiple property owning classes should have to take a hit too.

Nonresident parents can end up with less money than resident ones. They don't get child tax credit or child allowance, have to pay money to the resident parents and if they want to see their kids regularly need a house big enough to accomodate them and are often the one driving back and forth spending fuel, which can seem particularly unfair if it's the resident parent who moves away.