To be pleased most of the cabinet are Oxbridge graduates?

[sagerosemaryandthyme]

That's it really. Surely we want the brightest and best in the cabinet.

I don't think it's Obxbridge itself being ellitist, I think the ellistism sets in well before that. It's at the private school level where the advantage is gained.

Of course you are going to excel at school if you have ability and intensive teaching. This means you're more likely to gain an Oxbridge place. If you're at a state school you'd need to be cleverer than the ones at private schools just to get on the same level as them, as you just don't get the same standard of teaching.

Something like 17% of sixth formers are in private education. But yet it's around 50% state pupils at Oxbridge. So yes, it's still an ellitist system.

And no women... well, one.

"My cousin was definitely bright enough to go to Oxbridge (he has been working on CERN, don't you know? ) but he wouldn't apply because he thought they'd shut the door in his face for being working class and the first in his family to go to university."

And that's Oxbridge's fault!? Words fail me.

I probably have a biased view but as I know several people who went to Oxbridge from state schools I don't see it as a totally elitist system.

Do people really think that there is some system by which it is a case of who you know rather than what you can demonstrate you know?

Of course some people apply to Oxbridge with very high A Level predictions or results and get rejected. This happens with candidates from both private and state schools.

Not answering the thread at all really - and I would also say that not having gone to Oxbridge does not mean that you are not going to be clever but to just decide that because people went to Oxbridge that they are somehow a product of an elitist society isn't fair.

sagerosemaryandthyme You know as well as I do that OP is doing a spot of trolling here.
The overall tone of opening post is that somehow going to Oxbridge means that a person will somehow be excellent politicians and those that don't, won't be.
When all is said and done, it is drive, ambition, the ability to manipulate others and shrewdness (classic example: Peter Mandelson)that makes a good politician not excellence in a certain academic subject.

foureleven - four women, not one.

TheBride - she was at a specialist music school with me (hence there for her musical ability not academic - although she left with 6 A's at A Level, 10 Scottish Highers (all A's) and I tink it was 7 or 8 CSYS's) and she played sport as well, and was fluent in several languages (helped by having a Greek irrc father, and french mother while living in England).........and was applying to study her science stuff...............apparently she didn't have "broad enough interests"

ahhh well she's laughing at them now working at the Gregor Mendel Institute.......although actually having just googled I've discovered that she's got her genetic PhD and also post-graduate in music as well and it doing her solo music career as well as her genetics lecturing at the University of Vienna (and she hasn't changed a bit from when we were at school looking at her photo

Erm yes it is, actually Fembear. Perhaps if they had worked towards improving their accessibility to people not from affluent backgrounds earlier than they did, lots of very bright people wouldn't have been put off applying. When school teachers tell you "yeah, not much point applying really" it's going to discourage you too.

As a Oxbridge graduate, I can tell you first hand that getting in is a not a walk in the park for anyone. The entrance exams I took made my a levels look easy. The interview process was the most gruelling of my life. No interview since has been as hard.

I come from a working class, state educated background and I got in over many 'public' school types. So to say Oxbridge is not open to all is wrong. I second what thebride has said.

And re the comment 'but an over-privileged cock with no idea of the reality of other poeple's lives and no compassion or empathy. I'm afraid that Oxbridge is a breeding ground for people like that. My Dad was a Charterhouse boy - he knows of what he speaks.'

So daddy went to charterhouse and knows of what he speaks? No - all daddy knows is how to pigeonhole people into one box. Not one of my contemporaries at Oxford meets your description (and through my involvement through sports - met a large cross section of students from all the collleges). I am not saying those type of people arent to be found in Oxbridge universities, they are. But they can also be found in many others too.

Foureleven. The fact politics attracts so few women is terrible, looking at mumsnet we're pretty good at passionate debate so something's not right!

YABU. Much more concerned that there's not a single person there who's impressed me. Where they came from has nothing to do with it.

People have said that Oxbridge can't admit those who don't apply, but I'll say it again. They also don't admit purely 'the brightest'. They admit those they judge likeliest to do well at Oxbridge. These two things are not the same! For example, if you are a brilliant Biologist who has no interest or few abilities in Chemistry and Physics, Cambridge is likely to turn you down because they teach their scientists a broader-based course that has some overlap between the three disciplines.

I'm aware this is tangential to the OP's question, but I'm hoping eventually it'll sink in ...

To say Oxbridge graduates are the brightest and therefore BEST for Cabinet is a truly ridiculous and quite ignorant, thing to say IMO. They have had an incredibly privileged education yes, and no doubt it is very tough to get a high degree, but that in itself does not mean that person would be a better politian, leader, thinker, problem solver or visionary than any other person who got a degree elsewhere, or even someone who has never attended university.

It's blinkered generalisations/beliefs like this that propagates the 'keep everyone in their proper place' mentality that has been one of this fair lands greatest weaknesses.

I agree with Bariatric & Getorfmyland on this one.

They seem rather detached from real life, just my take.

"Perhaps if they had worked towards improving their accessibility to people not from affluent backgrounds earlier than they did, lots of very bright people wouldn't have been put off applying. When school teachers tell you "yeah, not much point applying really" it's going to discourage you too."

Again, that is not Oxbridge's fault. That it is the school's fault.
To get into Oxbridge is very competitive. If someone is going to fall at the first hurdle, i.e. not even apply, then frankly they don't deserve a place.

YANBU.

Bravo mistletoe!

My DH - Oxbridge as undergrad, postgrad, teacher and member of any club there - didn't manage to get any of his children in!

Cupcakes, your cousin didn't get in because he made assumptions that led him not to apply in the first place, not because he was working class. His teachers want slapping for perpetuating that nonsense.

Countless girls in my class (top girls' independent school) didn't get in to Oxbridge despite being clever, sporty and having top grades. So what explains that? The fact that they can't accept everyone, that's what.

Oh simmer down, Fembear. Like I say, it's done him no harm; he got a very good degree and post-grad' from Manchester and it's all turned out good. I'm just pointing out that back then, Oxbridge really only concerned itself with the poshos. It might not be like that now and that's good. But back then, it definitely was.

Seconded, skihorse! fembear - that's a bit harsh, to say someone who 'falls at the first hurdle' doesn't deserve a place. It's not easy for a 17 year old to go against what the teachers are telling them is true, and remember they have to get references from those teachers too. I don't think blaming the student does any good here.

Btw, my school told me not to apply to Cambridge as it would be elitist and too tough for someone like me, and that was a private school. They still thought it would be full of Eton pupils and snobby.

"back then, Oxbridge really only concerned
itself with the poshos"

Erm not true. Loads of non-posh grammar school kids (including my mother) have gone to Oxbridge throughout the ages - well, at least since the 1950s.

I really wish more people would realise that Brideshead is NOT REAL. Sure there are a few ultra posh public school boys at Oxbridge, but they are only a small percentage. Unfortunately that's the percentage that the media chooses to focus on.

Whether oxbridge is equal opps or not

(and I would certainly still say not)

Academic performance is no indication whatsoever of whether a person would make a good politician

A lot of my family went to cambridge

They would all make terrible politicians

YANBU the slightest, very pleased with the cabinet selection. The fact that most of them went to Oxbridge is just icing on the cabinet
There seem to be a rather few comrades with enormous chips on shoulders, oh well, can't please everybody.

I know a girl who went to Cambridge. Not in the remotest bit brilliant. Got 2 B's and C at A Level, one of which was in textiles and one in drama.

She studied education. It is perfectly possible to get into Oxbridge but not be the 'brightest and the best', you just have to pick the right course!

After 1 month at Cambridge this girl suddendly thought she was a genius because she was at Cambridge it was very very odd! She now only mixes with Oxbridge grads and has started to claim she studied English at Cambridge and not Education with English.

Oxbrisge may not always take the very best but it is very apt at making those who went there think they did!

very trust Tory - and if you're a singer or an organist then choral scholarship and organ scholarships are a fab "back door" route in as well

I wouldn't say it is necessarily a sign that they are the best. But neither is it a sign that they will be the worst, reverse snobbery is equally wrong/unfair/irritating as the traditional form.

It is bloody hard work getting into Oxbridge, it isn't all mummy and daddy. When I was at school Oxbridge prep classes started in yr 8.