To be pleased most of the cabinet are Oxbridge graduates?

[sagerosemaryandthyme]

That's it really. Surely we want the brightest and best in the cabinet.

I don't care where they were educated, I'd rather have people who have lived in the real world and have first hand experience of their portfolio (eg Education Minister was perhsps a headteacher previously)rather than a career politician - surely that would be more useful than an Oxbridge degree?

Yes, I agree cupcakes. The point is really about the intellect and drive evident in lots of the people who graduate from Oxbridge. If those currently of 'Oxbridge intellect' all changed tack and went to ex-poltechnics and then in to the cabinet, of course that would be just as reassuring.

It's alright seeker- come and join me on a course of Applied Narcotics at the University Of Please Yourself, California.

My cousin was definitely bright enough to go to Oxbridge (he has been working on CERN, don't you know? ) but he wouldn't apply because he thought they'd shut the door in his face for being working class and the first in his family to go to university.

I am in the doldrums of despair with Seeker at the state of some of these threads lately.

privilege not Privelige.

My mum's ex-employer's DS went to Eton and Cambridge. Obviously a bright boy. He started a business with his parents' money which went into liquidation. Then he started another one with his parents' money. He complained that the reason his first business went bust was because minimum wage was too high. he boasted that he would keep employees on temporary contracts or sack them during their probationary period to avoid having to give them permanent contracts.

Obviously he was a cock, but an over-privileged cock with no idea of the reality of other poeple's lives and no compassion or empathy. I'm afraid that Oxbridge is a breeding ground for people like that. My Dad was a Charterhouse boy - he knows of what he speaks.

"Of course Oxbridge is open to all of society, they have special initiatives to ensure intake of bright kids from state schools. "

but that's a fairly recent thing is it not?

I know an exceptionally intelligent person that I went to school with who was turned down for Cambridge (she instead went straight into 2nd year at Edinburgh who welcome her with open arms), then went on to do a post-grad at some other top European University in Bio-Genetics and is now a lecturer there.

Mind - I'm not sure I'd have trusted her, despite her intelligence, to be a decent politician....

Hmm, might be naive but I understood, from having worked w many Oxbridge graduates, that connections won't help w getting in. Possibly different situation re Eton. To get into Oxbridge you need at least academic excellence and an impressive performance at interview stage. Apparently its a gruelling process.

I can't spell anything - and if I post too quickly without using the spell checker then it's an absolute disaster

Well your cousin was misinformed, possibly by a state education system that seems to thrive on a culture of mediocrity. There are hundreds of people at Cambridge with that background.

As I mentioned on another thread, Oxbridge take more state school pupils as a percentage of total intake than they get as a proportion of total applicants.

Oxbridge is elitist only in the academic sense of the word but they can't admit people who dont apply and a lot of the failure for that lies with the schools who dont encourage students from less priviliged backgrounds to apply.

Cupcakes, your brilliant cousin should have had more support from his school if he wanted to make such an application, some of the top colleges make a big effort to accept students from less affluent homes. Lets hope as time moves on fewer people feel like this.

As toccata said though, that's a relatively recent thing.

Let's see in 15/20 years time what difference having a more open admissions policy has made.

Well, my cousin was a student in the early '80s so don't know whether they had this intiative working back then and yes, he did get told by teachers that applying would be a waste of time. Still, doesn't seem to have done him any harm.

Really OP, then can you explain to me how my ex-boyfriend (a Cambridge graduate, doncha know) has ended up an an alcoholic wastrel?

You don't know what the f* you are talking about, it is true that very bright people tend to go to Oxbridge; but it does certainly NOT mean that they are the most driven, society-orientated, hard-working members of the country- just gifted in a certain area.

"oxbridge is not open to all of society"

I think you will find that it is. It may have more of one sort of society there than another, but it is open to anyone.

"Surely a good understanding of how the vast majority of our population live, how they struggle, how they can be helped, how the vulnerable can be helped, community initives etc etc etc is more important in an MP?"

Er, no. I'm a bit fed up with all this wishy-washy empathising. I would like a Govt to treat me like an adult for a change. I want a Govt to enable me, not patronise me.

It's the ops first post

ahhh well spotted Meglet

"some of the top colleges make a big effort to accept students from less affluent homes."

Words fail me.

Marantha, I'm sorry to hear your ex boyfriend suffers from alcohlism. A terrible disease, not social weakness caused by the university he went to.

toccatanfudge - unfortuantely Oxbridge cannot take everyone that applies. There are exceptionally intelligent people who are turned down, possibly in favour of slightly less intelligent people who perform better at interview, have other strings to their bow in terms of their interests (Oxbridge are VERY keen on students with serious extra curricular interests such as sport, musci, drama, politics). Academic excellence alone is not enough.

I hate the way the press have, in recent years, picked up on Pupil X who has 4 A's but who was turned down. Therefore Oxbridge is elitist.

I went there. It was not. I'm not sure I've ever been involved in anything where social background was less of an issue.

I dont think people who have never set foot in the place making unfounded accusations helps encourage pupils from state schools to apply.

Like toccatanfudge I did my A levels with someone who was exceptionally bright who was turned down for Cambridge, he got 5 A's at a time when 5 A's was very unusual. Every other university he applied to said we'll take you even if you get 2 E's as we can see just how bright you are.

I've since worked with someone who went to public school then Cambridge where he did badly in his degree. Seems a shame to me really.

I remember reading an article by John Clare (education commentator) where he believed that parents can buy their children a place at good school, good results at A level and a place at Oxbridge but thankfully as of yet they can't yet buy them a good Oxbridge degree. So I guess at least that says that those fortunate enough to get in to Oxbridge and leave with a good degree are clearly extremely bright. But it certainly doesn't mean that people who leave non-Oxbridge universities with a good degree aren't to be considered some of the brightest and the best too.

Toccata - not as recent as you would think. Some colleges are better at than others, and there are undoubtedly some colleges who do still favour applicants from private and Public schools.
The college my brother went to has over 75% state intake.

bunnymother - you are right.