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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to agree that Twilight has set feminism back by 10 years?

114 replies

ThatVikRinA22 · 12/05/2010 22:33

i loved Buffy, ended up having to buy all the series on DVD despite being in my 30's! Buffy was a strong female kick ass kinda girl. i loved the series, the characters. i got totally hooked along with the whole family. i felt sort of lost when we got to the finale.

so it was with interest i watched Twilight and New Moon with my teenage dd....

now i can sort of understand why women like the twilight thing....all dark and brooding, but purlease....does Bella really need 'protecting' by a vampire and werewolf who fight over her? while she sits and simpers?

id rather DD watch buffy.

OP posts:
ben10isgr8 · 13/05/2010 16:56

Totally loved BTVS...and Angel...even tru calling, (never watched Dollhouse but was planning to catch repeats).

Nothing will ever come close to Buffy. The series was a perfect mix of horror, humour, relationships, sex, and morals. Though I didn't want them to bring Angel back after she killed him...but hey ho...still loved the twists and turns that followed

I loved Underworld and resident Evil..strong female ass kicking leads. Bella is just so pathetic, mopey, whiney and depressing.

Teenage angst eat your hear out...I wanted to bitch slap her and say get a fucking grip....watch BUFFY then you will know how to handle the undead!

I prefer my female lead like to have get up and go, spice and attitude.

All said and done...It is a bit of fictional escapism. I think (hope) teenage girls see it as a laugh then put it on the shelf and get on with their lives

sarah293 · 13/05/2010 16:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SimonCowellIsSatan · 13/05/2010 17:07

Bag o' shite.

BritFish · 13/05/2010 17:15

thanks to those who appreciated my list! i have a longer one but that would be far too nerdy.

and to those who tell us to stop complaining:

i am big on the 'teenagers are not children, they have their own minds' thing, but i also remember what it was like to be a teenage girl, and to some teenage girls they wouldnt see a problem with the issues i have raised from Twilight, because after all, they're in lurve, so it doesnt matter.

its not a massive threatening issue where we should burn all the books, its just depressing that there is a woman out there who thinks all this stuff. there are NO pro-women messages in twilight, which concerns me about the author herself, but she's laughing now, and good on her for writing something with very little literary value and gaining so much success out of it!

its not aimed at us old fuddy-duddy, we know this, but we still 'get' teenage fiction and this one is just pure and utter shite. there are obviously loads of books out there, and classics, that have damaging messages about women and relationships, but the point im trying to make is that twilight is now so huge that it deserves to be ripped to shreds.

i dont think the future of our daughters is threatened, after all, those horrible, evil, porn-star breeding barbie dolls are doing that job

its just nice to rant. and i hope that not too many people take away the message that this is how mormon women feel about their gender! [not being mormon myself, i couldnt know whether they do or not i suppose!]

oh and Harry Potter is fantastic, abundant religious imagery aside.
and with positive female role models
see, i find it interesting for myself, not because i think my DD is going to end up with low self esteem [not being invited to birthday parties] a porn star [barbie dolls!!!] with an abusive boyfriend [twilight]

Goldberry · 13/05/2010 17:19

Haven't read whole thread. Have read the first 2 Twilight books. Readable, but quite rubbish. Agree about Bella as a poor role model. Am mostly loving this thread for the Buffy references though. So glad I'm not the only thirty-something woman to be a mad Buffy fan. Have watched all 7 seasons quite a few times and still miss it when I'm not watching it. (sad Buffy geek emoticon)

theQuibbler · 13/05/2010 17:23

I think Rowling is quite a good writer. She has got bad habits - mostly to do with being a bit pedestrian and an annoying tendency to spell everything out for each character on every single page. There's lots of "...said Harry, furiously", "...said Hermione, sadly", "...he said, viciously", but she's knows how to engage her readers and tell a story and the Harry Potter series has interesting ideas.

In comparison to Meyer, who to quote Stephen King, "can?t write worth a darn. She?s not very good.", Rowling is up there with Tolstoy.

Besides which, I just can't get around how much I dislike what it is that Meyer has to say. She just pisses me off with her retrograde crap.

ChocolateMoose · 13/05/2010 17:37

I know nothing about Twilight except for having read that it's hardly a model for healthy teenage relationships. Currently working my way through Buffy box sets, but only on series 2 so far. Hooked from the first scene of the first ever episode which I think is the best deconstruction of gender politics for teenage girls ever.

cupparooibos · 13/05/2010 17:44

Best summation of Twilight lameness ever . . . and with LOLCats.

Twilight

New Moon

spaceforthree · 13/05/2010 17:54

....I agree that the writing is hardly Dostoevsky but saying that, everyone I know (myself included) couldn't put Twilight down. So by definition that is the sign of a good story. I know more than a few 'classic' books that are BORING beyond beyond words. Anyway, as SM matures as a writer through the rest of the series, her prose definitely improves.

Why is Ed such an abusive boyfriend/husband? They are supposed to represent the obsession and passion of soul mates and as TeamEd points he even sacrifices his happiness in New Moon to try and free her of him??

herladyshiplovesedward · 13/05/2010 17:55

bella is an annoying drip.. and the books are badly written.. films are slightly worse than the books i think, but edward is just so damn HOT

the sensible part of my brain knows it's bad for me.. but some irrational part of me loves this twilight crap

i agree it sends a terrible message to young girls, but having said that dd (9) thinks that cheryl cole is the perfect woman

cupparooibos · 13/05/2010 18:09

"Anyway, as SM matures as a writer through the rest of the series, her prose definitely improves."

Wish I could have been paid that much to mature as a writer.

spaceforthree · 13/05/2010 18:15

I know. I was of the strong opinion reading Twilight et al, that I could have come up with the idea - so I'd have been v rich and far more importantly I'd have got to see RP lots .

Penguindreams · 13/05/2010 18:15

Herladyship, you sound like you really should be joining us over on the TSA thread in Adult Fiction! Lots of snurking at the rubbishness of the books and even more dribbling over RPattz!

(Do I need to add the standard disclaimer that I'm also an educated feminist )

TeamEdward · 13/05/2010 18:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nursie999 · 13/05/2010 18:27

I dont know, I think people arentaking it all a bit too seriously.
I have read them, all of them!(And its sort of a guilty pleasure. Although I dont have much interest in seeing the films, its enough to keep it in my head!)
I wasn't too bothered about the abstinence thing, because it seemed to me to be more about the not wanting to kill her/feed from her etc. I always got the idea that he used the "not until we are married" thing as an excuse not to turn her into a vampire more than anything else. Not to mention Edward is about 100 yrs old, and would be from a time where sex before marriage wasn't exactly someting to be proud of. (Although he has had plenty of time to get used to the 20th Century!)But do you know, its nice to occasionally not have to plough through a badly written sex scene!

I think that sometimes people look too deeply into these books.
I read a lot of trash when I was a teenager, (Virginia Andrews anyone?) Sometimes it really is just a good read. And if it gets more people interested in reading,and they move on to other stuff, that has to be a good thing.

Stephanie Meyers is Morman,so I suppose she is writing from her own beliefs. I think it's not such a bad thing for young girls to see that you dont always HAVE to have sex just because you are going out with someone.

The sexism thing, well it is there: Bella is protected at all times, leans on Edward, and pretty much abandons her friends and other relationships because of her dependence on him. She has to be saved from various situations all the time by him, and ends up doing all the cooking/housework for her dad. All the men are bigger and stronger than the girls, (Even the female werewolf is not as strong or powerful as the males) Edward tells her constantly that she cant look after herself, and the worst bit, because she is so alluring to him, if something happens and he cant control himself with her, it will be HER fault.
So yeah, sexist. But its fiction. Good fiction? maybe not, just escapism. But not much different to a lot of other stuff out there already. Enchanted, Beauty and the Beast, (practically all of Disneys princess films, Pretty Woman, most Reece Witherspoon stuff, Sin City, James Bond.......the list goes on. Ive watched most of them, and liked some of them. But I dont take it too seriously...

And is it a good thing for young girls to be obsessed with these books? I'm not sure that its any different to any of the obsessions that have been going on with young girls/women every generation. Most young girls are at some point or another obsessed with getting the "perfect" guy and Edward is (for them): He's Handsome/Pretty, strong, bit of a knight on a white horse, and of course he's dangerous. (And a bit stalkerish, with all that watching through the windows, IMO)
Just what every girl wants.I think the majority of them will grow out of it.

dreamworldfullofUNICORNS · 13/05/2010 19:00

Who wanted Bella to jump off a cliff in NM?

Chicken There is quite a good fanfic where Bella does actually jump off the cliff

In the Blink of an Eye

The writer does use the fic to jump on her soapbox a bit, but still, as with many fanfics, it is infinitely better than the original books.

spaceforthree · 13/05/2010 19:49

dream that fanfic is worse than SM and has none of the feel of her rhythms!! IMHO. Am I missing something?

spaceforthree · 13/05/2010 19:51

"feel of her rhythms" - what am I talking about????

What I mean is I thought fanfic would kind of follow the style.

TwoIfBySea · 13/05/2010 20:16

You all will have heard the joke then:

Stephenie Meyers is worth $50million.

What's she going to spend her money on?

Writing lessons.

PorphyrophillicPixie · 13/05/2010 20:25

I agree wholeheartedly!

My primary-school-aged cousin (well, great aunt's granddaughter ) has read the books and watched the movies. I babysat them a few weeks back and my god I worry about the things she was saying. At one point she said that Edward watching her as she slept was 'sweet' and that she wants a boyfriend like that one day I tried to set her straight gently but I don't think that it got through

twilightsucks is also an interesting site/forum, it has loads of debates about it but there's only really only so much you can dicuss about it before you end up repeating yourself over and over...

spaceforthree · 13/05/2010 20:36

Isn't primary school aged a bit young for the themes of Twilight full stop? Let's face it the books are really about sex.

saslou · 13/05/2010 21:18

Tbh, it's no worse than the mills&boon I devoured as a teen. Gld to discover I'm not the only grown woman who cried at the end of Buffy. Anyone remember the 'lost weekend' episode of Angel?

Do think Bella should have consulted MN before giong with Renesmee for her dd. We would have talked her out of that one

ThatVikRinA22 · 13/05/2010 21:30

how are the books about sex? you mean lack of or the message that sex before marriage is a no no?

the more i read about the upcoming stories in the books the more id rather my DD didnt read them, i thought the films were dire enough tbh.

cuppa - love the lolcats version. just about sums it up!

seriously think id like to chat to DD about this before she gets through the book., im a little worried about the up coming plot lines.

OP posts:
VoluptuaGoodshag · 13/05/2010 21:34

As someone in my 40s I loved being reminded of that gooey teenage feeling of someone being totally in love with you. It's only as an adult you can see that it's an unhealthy and unrealistic situation. But deep down don't we all hanker for someone to just love us that much? That's what sells the books.

FWIW, Twilight was readable hokum, New Moon was just getting silly, Eclipse really started to bore me and yes Bella was a complete pain in the arse.

TheSteelFairy2 · 13/05/2010 21:41

Those cat reviews are brilliant .

Totally agree with many of the points made on here but alongside a sensible no-nonsense talk to your dd's I think they are pretty harmless, made me happy for a good few hours during a miserable time in my life anyway.

Remember Sweet Valley High and the Sweet Dreams "novels"? here What utter crapola they were, can't believe they actually have a Wikipedia page! Twilight Saga better than them at least.

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