"once she hit 9lbs, we never responded to her after that..."

[Popscotch]

Namechanger because I don't want my neighbour to clock this one IYSWIM....

Today, I had a cup of tea with a neighbour. She is my age (late 30s), well-educated, SAHM, former professional and extremely friendly. She has 3 girls of similar age to my 2 DDs. So far, so normal. But when we got talking, inevitably, about sleep routines and bed times, I was, ahem, surprised by what she said.

I mentioned that my 15 month old still wakes at night and I am still breastfeeding her, even at night. My neighbour responded with:

"All mine slept through the night from veru early on. My little one [aged nearly 1] slept through almost as soon as we got home from hospital. And now, she goes to bed at 8.30 and wakes up at 7am [pause]....I mean, I realised that as soon as a baby weighes 9lbs, they can sleep through the night, so once she hit 9lbs, we never responded to her at night again. So, we did used to hear her crying of course, small house and all that, but it was never a problem. We knew we didn't want to start that asscoiation of crying in the night, mummy will come and you'll get milk. So, she got used to it and slept through really well. For a bit, she would wake up around 6am which was too early for me, and i knew I would be too knackered, so I never went into her until gone 7 ish. She still wakes up now but she's generally a really good sleeper. As were my other two DCs."

I might add, she is currently pregnant with her fourth child.

AIBU to put my judgey pants on? I mean, 9lbs? Some babies are born at 9lbs....

I know a paediatric consultant turned paediatric psychiatrist whose two children were both shocking sleepers for a long time. I find it oddly comforting.

Oh god, sleep again.... (And does this mean my just-over-8-pounder will start sleeping through soon?!) {grin}

Seriously, though, I wonder why any sane mum discusses her DC's sleep habits (or her sleep strategies) with any other mum? I've never known anything as divisive as sleep.... Genuinely pondering why? What was 'the issue' in previous generations? And why, in this one, do we make our decisions about sleep pivotal in our Good/Bad Mummy Awards?

(And no, I'm so not siding with the OP's neighbour on this one, just wondering why we are all automatically branding her a terrible person? Maybe she's really sleep deprived? Maybe her OH doesn't help - at all or much? Or maybe she really is Cruella de Ville?!)

I'm really sleep deprived and ds is 7mo. And started life at 9lb.

It's like the whole weaning at 12lb thing - dd was 12lb at about 6 weeks...

If her OH doesn't help....well, even if mine didn;t help there's No Way I would leave a 9 pound baby to cry it out

There wasn't an issue in previous generations as there weren't the studies there are now, for example (and I really should link to this but haven't found it yet) that babies who are left to cry produce more cortisteriods, which leaves them less able to deal with stressful situations later in life

I wouldn't either!

But it wasn't what I meant in my post - which was only that sleep (and how we deal w/ it) has become a horribly divisive issue.... I was really just wondering why? (FWIW - on a side note re another inflammatory topic - I exclusively br/f my children - + have a v good friend who FF - we seem to have transcended our differences on this one, why not sleep?)

(Sorry 4 bad typing - have mastered rocking + typing but obv. not v well!)

don't know, 14, don't know. I mean, if you have a bad sleeper, then it's nobody else's problem but yours. Think people think if you're "soft" on sleep, then you're soft on everything, and are raising a deliquent who will steal their car. Or something like that.

YANBU. God, DS1 and 2 went a screamed themselves to a dark shade of purple and had cold sweats if I so much as decided to try and have a quick shower without them in the early months and they were both 9lb+. I can't imagine the distress they would have been in if I'd just left them to cry at night. Kids cry for a reason imo. Sometimes, yes it's for comfort but babies are unsure of their environment and sometimes just need a hug off mum.
However, I would err on the side of caution when talking to your neighbour on these matters. It would be awful oir her to take any offence if she knew how you felt. I try and keep quiet when it comes to parenting techniques, it's a minefield.

The OP reminds me of the NSPCC advert -- 'Little Miles is a quiet baby. He knows nobody will come even if he does cry'

I'm horrified at some of your stories - the "routine" peddlers have a lot to answer for. I know I'm a bit of a lentil-weaving type who goes to DD every time she even whimpers but leaving a 9lb baby to scream with hunger ? How selfish. I would be so horrified if one of my friends said that I would have to say my piece, I think it borders on cruelty especially as lots of babies are 9lb and over at birth.

All the OP can do is hope that her neighbour's distant and emotionally-retarded parenting won't have any long term mental health consequences for her children.

I was once speaking to someone and they said their DS (who was 1) didnt sleep well, so they "put him in a room where noone could hear him and now he sleeps through".

I just couldn't LIKE them 100% after that.

I have 3 children, who were 9lb12oz (4 days early!), 9lb3oz (10 days early!!) and 7lb13 (3 weeks early!!!).

I never denied any of them milk in the night, until they were at least a year old!!!

Where on earth does the idea that a 9lb baby needs no sustenance at night come from????

This is, IMO, Bollocks.

I'm pulling on my judgey pants right alongside OP!!

(ps dh has recently started using the term "judgey pants". Too much time on MN from me, I think!!)

I hate it when people say of WOHMs, for example, "why have children if you don't want to look after them"....
But, here I do think if you are not prepared to do the most basic things for your child (comfort / feed / change them) when they are crying out for help and are still tiny infants, then why have children?

The big bloody glaring difference is that WOHMs provide an alternative cared who DOES respond to the baby / child. These people don't deserve children if they put their own needs first and IGNORE their kids' needs.

Carer not cared
iPhone auto correction

Ummm, my son was also 9 lbs when born.

It has clearly worked for her though. I definately would not be copying it though!

I am left wondering what she means by 'slept through the night'.

MY MIL said DH did this as soon as he came home. On further probing she meant he slept from 12 am to 6 am. LOL! My idea of sleeping through the night was 7 pm to 7 am, that took a little longer. I would have definately had real problems with my milk supply if I didn't feed during the night, too. MIL didn't BF.

"It has clearly worked for her though."

Her being the operative word. Who knows whether it has worked for her children...

I always thought it was supposed to be 11lb before they were capable of going through the night?
At 9lb my dd still had feeds at 11pm, 2am, 5am then 7am so essentially 3 night feeds. She dropped the 5am feed at around 11lb and dropped the 2am feed at around 12lb.
She is 6 months and still has a feed at 10pm. She occasionally wakes in the night and I wouldn't dream of ignoring her! Usually it's because she has a dirty/wet nappy. Sometimes it's simply because she thinks it's time to get up. She hasn't learned to tell the time yet

She sounds like my colleague and her husband who wore ear plugs to avoid being wakened by their not quite newborn twins.

Some people are just nasty.

But as others have pointed out, sadly those who operate very strict routines and ignore distressed babies often find their schedules work because said baby soon learns that no-one comes. This gives the parents the green light to dictate to others how to do things.

Poor baby. Why do people obsess about babies sleeping through? They're babies, they have no ulterior motive, they need something, be that food, comfort, whatever, they're just babies.

My youngest was a tiny prem baby (3lb 3oz) and didn't sleep through until she was over a year old, I was up every 2hrs minimum for the first 6 months or so, she NEEDED me. My youngest was 9lb 3 at birth, she needed feeding constantlt for the first few weeks, from around 3 weeks she started sleeping 11pm-5am, pure luck, I did nothing different with the 2 babies.

I think it's so sad that a mother could just ignore their crying baby, 9lb is still so tiny.

Put your judgey pants on if you like but it is her way of doing things and it has clearly worked for her, just as your way has worked for you. Is she your friend or just your neighbour? Difficult to be friends with neighbours IME.

oh and some of the people on here a just nasty, the woman was probably just trying to help you get your child to sleep through - if it is what is important to her she probably thought it would be important to you.

Blimey, mine were 8lbs 13oz and 10b 11oz, they didn't sleep through for quite some time. I feel cheated.

What an awful admission, I can't believe she admitted to leaving a newborn to cry like that, let alone did it.

I would not have been able to stop myself from telling her what I thought. Shuddering. Poor babies.

The wife of one of my cousins was adamant that her babies were going to live to a strict routine. This included shutting the bedroom door at 7pm and not re-opening it until 7am, from a few weeks old.

The same woman also tried to potty train her first child according to a strict routine and with no regard for her child's readiness/willingness. The end result was a severely constipated/incontinent 3 year old with a very stretched bowel that will take several years to heal...