to think we can survive on one salary?

[auntpolly]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but couldn't think where else!

I'm a lurker on here, so I'll introduce myself as briefly as I can. I've got two little ones, a 4 year old DD and a nearly 2 year old DS. My husband and I rent a flat in london, and both commute into the city daily. I work full time, DD goes to nursery and DS goes to a childminder 5 days a week. The problem is I'm finding work and motherhood combined pretty stressful, much worse now I have 2 kids... trying to get 2 kids and myself ready in the morning, out of the door before 8, then on the packed bus, then me on the tube. A day full of stress, then dash to pick up the kids, more bus journeys... plop them both in the bath and then into bed... then do dinner, laundry, ironing, cleaning, bed at midnight, up at 6am, repeat... you get the picture.
I really feel like I'm missing out on time with kids that I won't get back and I don't enjoy my job at all, so it feels like too much of a sacrifice. But if I stop work our joint income goes down by almost half! Part time is not an option (I work in a financial institution in which motherhood is viewed as a weakness).
We're thinking of moving out of London into the commuter belt where rent would fall to about £1k a month. Which on my husband's salary would leave us just over £1k a month for everything else (utilities, food, rail travel, petrol, kids clothes etc.) Sorry to post actual figures, seems a bit crass but don't know how else to illustrate my point.
I think money will be tight, DH thinks we just won't be able to do it.
Am I being unreasonable? How do all the other full time mums manage?

Instead of living South East, have you thought about going further afield where your DH would be able to work sans commute? West Country, North?

Personally, I think it would be too much of a struggle. I was a SAHM until both mine were at school, when I went back part time. Even now, our income after housing costs is similar to what you will have if you leave work. By the time council tax, utilities and food, are paid, there is not much (usually nothing) left for things like birthdays, clothes,holidays and other treats. We have not had a holiday for several years, and no prospect of one for the next couple of years at least. TBH, DH and I are so used to struggling, that lack of holidays etc doesn't bother us, but it might bother some. We run a small, old car. It is about as economical as you can get and we need it to visit/transport DC1 at university. Despite the fact that DC1 gets grants and student loan, we still have to help out as housing costs for students are quite high in that area (loans/grants only just cover it) so we have to help out with food etc.

We are homebirds, but I know how difficult it was when I first stopped work, to stop going out on the social activities with colleagues. Though there are things arranged at my job, I can rarely afford them.

Your DH will be spending a lot more time commuting than now. It is tiring. You may find that weekends become more about him recovering than doing the family activities you may want to do.

I know I am sounding very negative. I don't mean to. I would not have traded my years at home with DC1 and DC2 for any amount of money, but I do think you need to think very carefully about what you will be giving up in order to do what you suggest. It can be done, but it is very hard to make so many big changes at the same time and may lead to stresses in your relationship with DH at a time when you will all need to be supporting each other.

I wish you luck, I hope you can work it out so that it does work for you.

Just to say I have worked in a at least 2 financial institutes which have let me got part-time. Have you actually ASKED?

Thanks everyone, lots to think about and really good points for and against. It needs to be a decision we're both happy with. DH is on board with me staying at home, if his income was that bit higher he wouldn't hesitate. I want to spend more time with the kids, but it will mean less time for him with the kids, not good. Part time with my company is not an option. I work in an investment management firm, I did ask for part time after I had my second, and they said it would not be in the interests of the company. They actually demoted a colleague for taking more than 6 months maternity leave and docked her pay as a result. They are a big company and know legal inside out. They know they have the upper hand in this climate. I've spoken to some agencies about part time, I'm on their books so I might hear something. I'm in banking operations so back office. DH is in client relations, so greater potential earnings, also his skills are more transferable, mine are very specific to the operating platform of my company.
Last night we went over both of our bank statements with a fine tooth comb and filled out the budget planner, thanks cece! His travel expense would go up from £116 a month to £194, and his journey would be just over an hour door to door. After rent and travel, we would have £1600 (including child benefit) a month to spend on everything else, so not as dire as I thought but still not great. I'm quite surprised DH didn't know what his take home pay is, just shows how rubbish we currently are with money. I think we would need a joint account, and I would need to bring some money in some how, evening shifts in a supermarket if I can get it.
Thanks again everyone, this has been really helpful. I haven't been able to discuss this much with RL mum friends, people don't like talking money!

OP do you earn more than your dh? Because it sounds like it if you have £800 left from your salary after childcare & travel costs (unless your childcare costs are lower than they are here which I would doubt...) In which case, yes would hour dh consider being a sahd?

Our income also halved when I became a sahm and we managed but our housing costs are a lot lower than yours. You might want to try getting extra help at home (eg cleaner) for a while & see if that helps?

to have £1600 disposible income after rent+travel then sounds with tightening your belts you could give up work if you wanted to

do you use childcare vouchers for childcare as this can help towards costs?

you could try and get a supermarket job 2 nights a week if dh home in time,my friend works 6-11 2 nights a week and earns prob £30 a night so £60 a week

ugh. All day at home cooking cleaning entertaining dc (as lovely as time with dc would be), then working in a supermarket would be absolutely exhausting. I don't mean to be judgy or sound unkind because I mean to say this in the kindest way possible.... but, do you think you might be underestimating how exhausting sahm life would be? You won't have the bus journeys and tube journey... but your day will be equally as exhausting. (I'm saying this from the POV of a working mother who has a lot of holidays - teacher in a school with more hol time than british schools).

"moving out of London into the commuter belt where rent would fall to about £1k a month."

Seriously? Not where we live -- and it's a 50 min train journey to London from here, so even beyond "normal" commuting territory. £1K per month would get you 2 bedrooms max, somewhere yucky. And then it's £400 for a monthly season ticket on the train.

You may need to opt out of your career and take a part-time job to make your dream affordable.

Auntpolly did you put in an official request 2 years ago or just ask your boss? Also I am sure you can re-ask after 2 years (and I mean an official request). If you are thinking about giving up work then you are not going to lose anything by asking, PLUS I find in the current climate companies are more receptive to part-time requests to cut costs. It just seems you are rejecting this compromise out of hand without actually discussing it with your company

"They actually demoted a colleague for taking more than 6 months maternity leave and docked her pay as a result. They are a big company and know legal inside out"

This is so illegal I don't even know where to start, no matter how big the company I think something else must have gone on that you don't know about.

And if that's true about your colleague, it is completely illegal, but they probably weighed up the cost-benefits of having to pay out compensation should it go to court, and being a big fat financial institution thought it was worth it.

Some of these companies really don't give a shit about mums.

we aren't in london and i know that is a different kettle of fish (my sis lives there and i am always at how much everything costs) but in a city that is commutable to london I am a SAHM with my dh earning all our income which is entirely shared. There are days when i get fed up of the tedium of constant childcare and clearing up after everyone but i do think overall i am glad to be in this position.
yes, we don't have any cash left at the end of the month and yes, i often find myself feeling jealous of my friends who have 2 incomes and lots of nice things and holidays, but this time when my dc are pre-school is only a short time in my whole life and career and at the moment they really don't care whether they have nice clothes or expensive holidays! (yes i know those days will come but hopefully not til i have re-established my career )
the main point i was going to make (sorry about the waffle) is that if you weren't working you would have much more time and head space to work out how to live more cheaply and not wasting money - i know that it is something i spend a lot of time thinking about which can get tedious but is a good discipline and quite satisfying when you can make it work.
I don't know if you can survive on in the figures you describe but your current situation sounds very hard on all of you and not tenable in the long term..
all the best to you

It is had to cut down when you are used to more money but it can be done defiantely. I have been on mat leave and realise how much I used to waste on quick and easy food, work clothes,petrol, lip stick to cheer me up after a crap week at work etc.

When I went back to work after my first child I went part time, which I found great. But I went for the most expensive childcare as it offered the most flexibility. When I go back next month with 2 at nursery - the nursery fees will take ALL my earnings. I could have gone for a child minder or even my parents to mind the baby which would have been cheaper - but I realised 2 drop offs and pick ups would be too much for me.

I am going to put up with the nursery fees taking all my earnings because I think if I leave my job it will be really hard to get another one in a few years especially i the current economic climate.

I will pick up the following things you say Auntpolly:

I work in a financial institution in which motherhood is viewed as a weakness.

I would want to be back in work when DS gets to school age.

I've had 2 chest infections and shingles since the start of year.

[my skills] are very specific to the operating platform of my company.

This makes me feel that if you leave the company then you are likely not to be able to get your job back again, with that company or another... as your skills are very specific. So what would you see yourself doing when DS gets to school age? Would you really want to sit on the checkout at a supermarket? Would the supermarket even employ you - as on paper you will have quals and skills they may feel are far beyond the job.

Given recent health, does your company offer any opportunity to take unpaid time off, such as a career break? While that may result in your position at work being lower when you return, it does keep the job open to you. Possibly something to look into with HR Dept.
Also look at long-term sick leave... if your health is suffering it may be in your companies interest for you to have a short break.

I would try to avoid both those possible options though, as I suspect that given the attitude towards motherhood, they may have similar attitudes to people who take anytime off for whatever reason.

Think really carefully about if you really want to leave your career. It is what you know, what you are good at, it may be where your friends are.

End of the day you need to do what will make you happy. I'm far happier now that I'm earning less money than I did in the past, though I work more hours now... but I'm doing work I like. It will never buy me a house though... and I don't have dependants so I'm only needing to support myself.

Are you spending weekends as quality time as a family? Or are you spending weekends doing household chores? If it's chores - then I agree with those who have said that it may be best to look at getting household help, rather than leave your job.

You may also want to look at childcare again... seems a little daft to have two forms of childcare, when the childminder could probably have both your children (if childminder has the childcare places available). A childminder can also take children to/from school, whereas nurseries often don't do that - thus with a childminder you will be having a longer term commitment.

I'm not in your situation so I can't know what it's like. However in this current economic climate and political situation I would be very hesitant about leaving a job.

I also agree with StarExpat... that being a SAHM may be very exhausting. I work with children in a family home... so thus am sort of like a part-time (40 hours a week) SAHM. It is exhausting at times caring for two young children. You still have the same difficulties in getting them out of the door... it's just at a slightly different time as takes shorter time to get to where they need to be - school for example. Once oldest is at school you then have a toddler to entertain all day, a toddler who is constantly demanding attention, who is throwing tantrums at random points, having to get the washing done - yet toddler knows how to change the settings on the machine, etc.

Umm not sure if anybody has said this but what is your husband doing to help with the house and kids? Sounds like your doing it all and a full time job. I wouldn't put up with that myself.

i've not read replies just the op but yes yanbu you should be okay to survive on that. my dh works in the city too so probably similar salary, also 2 dc and renting in london, i dont work & its fine. if you moved further out & 1k rent it should be easily do able. you would also save on your child care & travel anyway

The critical question that cries out to me is:

Is it really your job that you're not enjoying? Or is it the stressful combination of two full time jobs, two young children plus running a home?

If it's the former, then tbh, how much does it matter that you may harm your long term prospects, because I don't understand why you would want to get back into a career which you don't enjoy. In which case, it makes more sense to scale your lifestyle down, and maybe do some unskilled evening work just to top up the family income. Then have a major rething career-wise when the children are in school.

If it's the latter, then I would hesitate to jack your career in. Yes, it is very hard work to have two careers going with a young family, and there is often little or no financial incentive to keep working, as it all gets eaten up with childcare etc. But if you enjoy the career and don't want to jeapardise your longer term prospects, it can be worth the stress in the short term.

Only you can answer that. You are clearly physically run down which will affect your judgement, so talk it through with your DH, who will also need to be listened to, because being sole earner is a huge pressure for many people.

FWIW I had moments when our children were small that I seriously thought god, I would have more money left in my pocket each month if I jacked in my professional career and took an evening supermarket job. When you are under pressure it's easy to feel that. however, I am very glad I didn't because that phase doesn't last long, and when you come through it and realise your children are fine, and your career is intact, you begin to reap the rewards.

However, as I say, if you don't envisage yourself in this career long term, and want a change of direction, then you may feel differently.

re-think

P.S Lenin makes a really good point re: pensions.

It's no good burying our heads in the sand, we will all need to live on something for the 20 or whatever years when we stop working, and I know I am going to want more than a basic state pension!

Even if a lot of your income is going on childcare, your pension is still being kept going which counts for a hell of a lot. Something to think about.

I was working full time and decided to go pt then in march I quit. I felt I was missing out on the young uyears with my children. I missed them. So my husband went back out to work and I stayesd at home again. I love it now! I had a bads time last year before I worked. Are you not entitled to tax credits auntpolly? Now your income has dropped it might be worth seeing if you qualify

OP it worries me that your original figure was £1,000 to live on including travel - ie £800

This has changed to £1600 after rent and travel - in fact twice as much as you originally thought! Surely £1,600 after rent and travel is do-able without living hand to mouth?!!

I agree with others though that to take time out from your career now will probably cost you dearly in ways you may not really yet fully understand and the whole arrangement is so dependent on your dh that it makes you vulnerable. You are probably giving up a degree of future financial security here.

If I were you I would be looking for some middle ground options.

Don't forget that when you move out to the country you will need to have a reliable car under you. We have to drive everywhere and I do not live in the sticks.

And if you live where I live, it will have to be a Volvo.