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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder why so many people don't get married before having DCs?

342 replies

EveWasFramed · 03/05/2010 10:43

I promise, this isn't meant to be judgemental!! But, my DH and I grew up in pretty traditional families, where you got married first BEFORE having kids...it was kind of a negative thing to do otherwise.

I wanted to get married before my DCs just because I thought there should be some kind of (legal) committment to make it more difficult for one of us to bugger off if we got fed up...if kind of 'makes' us work things out if we ever run into any problems.

Don't know...thoughts, please? I am curious...

OP posts:
sfxmum · 03/05/2010 11:12

we did when we decided we were going to have children together although we had been together for 8 years prior without ever thinking of marriage
but something happened which made us think of formal next of kin so we went for it in a low key sort of way

VinegarTits · 03/05/2010 11:12

i have a will, a pension, a good job, you dont need to be married for that

sfxmum · 03/05/2010 11:13

sorry badly worded but there is the gist

biddysmama · 03/05/2010 11:15

because i would have been stuck with that tosser, as it was me and ds got away pretty easily one day while he was out.... havent seen him since (his choice btw, not mine)

Original poster
EveWasFramed · 03/05/2010 11:18

True, VT...but you can be married and have all those things, as well...

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hobbgoblin · 03/05/2010 11:18

How much relevance, I wonder, does the before/after DC issue have? Do many people who have had DC out of wedlock (nice word ) go on to marry?

I suspect that those who do marry later do so as the easier option in terms of financial security as (I think expat) alluded to.

Whether children are born before the finances are secured through marriage is an issue of sex and morality. Do you buy into all that stuff? It is obviously pointless as most of are not virgins before marriage so to prduce DC as evidence of this fact really doesn't matter much does it? Or is it like airing your dirty laundry in public to some?

You can't argue the security for DC point because marrying will not stop daddy (or, more rarely mummy) running off and leaving the family.

HarlotOTara · 03/05/2010 11:18

My only concern is that unmarried couples are not protected in law unless you have something legally drawn up. I find it amazing how many couples don't realise it both on here and in real life. No such thing as a common-law wife and if one partner is working and owns the house and the other doesn't and looks after children, that one is in a very vulnerable position financially and legally if there is an unpleasant break up, as posts on MN have shown. That really worries me. Not saying you need to get married but just make sure you are safe. I know an unmarried father named on the birth certificate,since 2003, has parental responsibility but prior to that he has none unless it is applied for. It means he can't agree to medical treatment for his children etc.

Original poster
EveWasFramed · 03/05/2010 11:24

I guess that's kind of it, too...I feel like having the DCs and NOT being married, may put us in a more vulnerable postion in terms of the law...is that true to any extent??

One example is that I am not a British citizen, but my husband is. If I don't become a citizen, and he dies unexpectedly, I am bound by inheritance tax...I don't get everything in OUR estate free and clear from the government...they will take a percentage. It would really piss me off to have to give the government a good chunk of what I earned during our marriage...and a will doesn't cover that.

Wouldn't being unmarried put that same kind of stress on some of you? And, still, maybe not a compelling enough reason to do it, but what can you do legally to avoid that kind of thing?

OP posts:
Original poster
EveWasFramed · 03/05/2010 11:25

Sorry...now I'm turning all legal!!! Didn't mean to turn things in that direction!!

OP posts:
said · 03/05/2010 11:29

I think being in a relationship with a non-UK citizen is one of the circumstances where I would marry. Just for simplification.

Original poster
EveWasFramed · 03/05/2010 11:32

We didn't live in the UK then, so even that wasn't a reason...we just wanted to get married!

OP posts:
ArsMamatoria · 03/05/2010 11:34

We felt very strongly that our relationship was our business and the idea of it somehow being 'validated' by the state was abhorrent to us.

As atheists, religious reasons were out of the question.

Our children (and before we had them, our house) were our commitment to each other.

OH died last August, when I was pregnant with DD2. I still don't regret our decision not to marry, even though I have missed out on widowed parent's allowance, because I know our love meant and continues to mean more than any legal document.

SirBoobAlot · 03/05/2010 11:35

Because firstly, DP and I had only been together when we found out I was pregnant.

Secondly I was 17 at the time.

And thirdly its the 21st Century.

SirBoobAlot · 03/05/2010 11:35
  • only been together five weeks, that should read.
GypsyMoth · 03/05/2010 11:36

One look on the relationships board here on mumsnet is reason enough not to tie yourself down by marriage!!

Dc or not!!

mysteryfairy · 03/05/2010 11:39

I think the rights that come with being married are a very different thing from the anti buggering off precuation described in your original post.

I suppose most people are tenants in common of their property and don't actually have an estate to leave of over £325,000 other than this (I think this is the inheritance tax threshold) so providing they have made a will may not be disadvantaged. Hve to admit I wasn't aware there is a widowed parents allowance. ArsMamatoria I am so sorry about your DP.

Are there different inheritance tax rules for non UK nationals? - I didn't know that. What is the difference in the rules?

ButterPie · 03/05/2010 11:40

DP has been married before, no kids, now they haven't even had so much as a text message between them for months. He has kids with me, but we are not yet married. He would find it a lot harder to run off from me!

PatsyStone · 03/05/2010 11:40

Ds was unplanned, such is life, but we got married when ds was 2, not because we buy into any religious or old fashioned ownership claptrap, but because for us it was a sign of our commitment and it does provide more security if the relationship does break down, or someone dies.

HarlotOTara is correct, I assumed that because my name was on the title deed to our house that that would be enough to ensure a 50/50 split if we had split up (prior to being married) but as I understand it now, if you are a sahm and have not put anything or very little into the house financially, you could be stuck up a creek without a paddle. If you dp decides to play dirty, your contributions to bringing up children, keeping house etc will mean very little in court. So if you don't want to get married, make sure the legal side with regards to your property is sorted.

mysteryfairy · 03/05/2010 11:42

sorry i meant joint tenants obviously

Tortington · 03/05/2010 11:43

i got married cos i was young naive and a bit thick.

i wouldnt do it again, yes it made me stay and work things through, but ummmm, i dunno, sometimes things just shouldnt be worked through - its like you acted like a prize twat ....bye.

and when your married its all complicated.

i know there are legal things and thats all well and good - but i have stood on my own tow feet and never had to rely on dh for anything, in fact if anything at all i carried him, i got him jobs - not the other way around.

however i do wonder how its possible to become accidently pregnant more than once - that has baffled me for years.

if you truly in yur heart of heart dont want kids - you bloody well make sure you dont have them (multiples excluding)

ButterPie · 03/05/2010 11:45

We are actually getting married in August, but we have practically no assets (some books, a three year old computer) and are both on the dcs birth certificates, so not sure it really makes that much difference legally.

If the Tories get in, we are considering not even doing the legal signing of forms. I'm not having some posh boy judge my family!

TaurielTest · 03/05/2010 11:47

Someone asked me this (at a wedding) this weekend. Our reasons are similar to Arsmamatoria's and Tethersend's, personal and political. Moving in, buying home together, deciding to have DCs - all very big deals to us in terms of commitment. Wills made. Both feel we're in this for the long haul, as far as anyone can know that. OP, are these responses helping you see it from the other point of view? I'd turn the question round - under circumstances like mine, with no compulsion from tradition or religion - why marry?

junglist1 · 03/05/2010 11:49

I've never been bothered. I don't see the appeal of being that tied to someone that you have to give them half your property when you realise you hate their guts and divorce. Someone cheats on you and then takes everything you've worked for? No chance

ShinyAndNew · 03/05/2010 11:51

Dd1 wasn't planned. A proposal followed shortly after the announcement that I was pregnant, but unfortunately it came equipped with blackmailing i.e. "If you insist on having this baby against my wishes then you must give up your job, move back home and marry me. Because if it's not done properly I want nothing to do with this child for the first three years of it's life. After which SS will give me full custody" . Needless to say I declined.

DD2 was planned but I don't believe that a marriage certificate will make me a better parent. I'd rather put the money into our house.

Original poster
EveWasFramed · 03/05/2010 11:55

Ooohh...interesting, puddock! Thanks...most responses have been enlightening, and yes, have definitely given me more perspective. I am not naive at all, nor am I young, but I think when your family views things a certain way, it can cloud things slightly, and I don't like that...I'm open minded, and I like hearing different sides to an issue...something that I've never had with this particular issue until today.

Yes, mysteryfairy...our house is worth a bit more than the threshhold, so everything over that in terms of savings and other assets are subject to inheritance tax. I have looked for loopholes all over the place, but this is the situation. We didn't marry because of any of this, but it does mean that getting citizenship is rather pressing for me...

OP posts: